• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Philosophy of science: Does every adult have a gender identity?

Does every adult have a gender identity?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • No

    Votes: 8 66.7%

  • Don't know

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thermal said:
Ya that's the problem.
Click to expand...
The approach from analytic philosophy would be to present a few strong contenders and evaluate them in terms of what we were hoping they would be able to accomplish in terms of carving nature at its joints.
 
d4m10n said:
BTW FWIW there is some scholarship linked at post #56
Click to expand...
I'd call that anti-scholarship. Section 2, paragraph 2,gives the game away:

In order to carry out an ameliorative project, it is first necessary to select a set​
of political aims that are to guide the project. As I have already made clear, the​
aims guiding the ameliorative project that I am undertaking in this paper are the​
aims of trans rights movements, which I take to be twofold: promoting the rights​
of trans people, and countering transphobia. The next task is to establish how​
these aims translate into specific desiderata for a target concept. In order to do​
this, it is necessary to look in more detail at the kind of work the concept of gen-​
der identity is being required to do in trans rights movements, and at the kind of features it must have in order to do this work well.​

It's an attempt to craft a definition that suits a predetermined political goal.
 
theprestige said:
It's an attempt to craft a definition that suits a predetermined political goal.
Click to expand...
The entire field of gender studies has "predetermined political goals," but that doesn't mean they aren't scholars.

We'd both like to see much more ideological diversity in the humanities, but there are clear differences between the scholarly approach and the cartoon version.
 
I'd say maybe not, but for those who do, it can be a very important thing to them.

There's a word for the people who do not identify as either male or female - nonbinary - and for some it's because they identify with a third gender, or their identity changes over time, or sometimes just because they don't feel anything either way. Is lack of an identity itself an identity?
 
I can't personally imagine what it would be like to not have a gender identity. But that is me. For me to pretend I know what is going through another person's mind is arrogant.
 
arthwollipot said:
I'd say maybe not, but for those who do, it can be a very important thing to them.

There's a word for the people who do not identify as either male or female - nonbinary - and for some it's because they identify with a third gender, or their identity changes over time, or sometimes just because they don't feel anything either way. Is lack of an identity itself an identity?
Click to expand...
I think nonbinary is more a reaction against the perceived social pressure of sex-coupled gender expectations than it is a distinct or distinguishable "identity". When it isn't a social contagion (which itself is an acquiescence to social pressure).
 
Thermal said:
I'm wondering if whether "the rest of us" have the same feel for identity, but we don't notice because everything lines up. Like, I never have the impulse to wear a padded bra or put on eyeshadow and a skirt. The "guy" identity is invisible because there's nothing contradicting it.
Click to expand...
I suppose that having positive feelings about any way I could possibly look places me outside of useful discussions of identity issues. Whatever I could be, that would be me and I'd enjoy it. That doesn't seem to be a vanishingly rare attitude but it doesn't seem to be typical either. It's a liitle bit like never moving past 'imaginative six year old' as far as identifying with your own physicality.

It does make Kafka less compelling to read. I have to keep reminding myself of the point.
 
theprestige said:
I think nonbinary is more a reaction against the perceived social pressure of sex-coupled gender expectations than it is a distinct or distinguishable "identity". When it isn't a social contagion (which itself is an acquiescence to social pressure).
Click to expand...
The nonbinary people I know disagree with you.
 
arthwollipot said:
The nonbinary people I know disagree with you.
Click to expand...
I'm well aware that a depressingly large number of people have never given this question much thought, and have nothing but the ideological vocabulary of Tumblr scholarship to try to describe what they're feeling.

I don't expect anyone who's contracted a social contagion to have a clear headed understanding of their circumstance.
 
Last edited:
theprestige said:
I'm well aware that a depressingly large number of people have never given this question much thought, and have nothing but the ideological vocabulary of Tumblr scholarship to try to describe what they're feeling.

I don't expect anyone who's contracted a social contagion to have a clear headed understanding of their circumstance.
Click to expand...
The nonbinary people I know have given it plenty of thought, thank you very much. And as far as I know none of them are on Tumblr.
 
I absolutely can't fathom being male and seeing myself as female. I also can't imagine being a Muslim or a Sikh, or a Christian. It is easily as ridiculous to think that human beings walk on water, turn into salt, talk to snakes and donkeys or fly to the moon on a horse.

But people actually believe this crap. At least a male has females they can relate to. Females are real. Still, it would be arrogant of me to say that no way do people believe this nonsense.
 
acbytesla said:
I absolutely can't fathom being male and seeing myself as female. I also can't imagine being a Muslim or a Sikh, or a Christian.
Click to expand...
Not even imagine, really? I'd make a hella hot guy. And probably a very nice Sikh.
 
Lithrael said:
Not even imagine, really? I'd make a hella hot guy. And probably a very nice Sikh.
Click to expand...
Have any of you read Illusions; The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah? Written by Richard Bach who is most famous for writing Jonathan Livingston Seagull. I read it in the late 1970s. It's about a Messiah that quit his job to barnstorm. He and another barnstormer fly together and he acts as a teacher for the other barnstormer. The book is really about philosophy but the philosophy lessons is wrapped up in the story.

It teaches us that life is an illusion and we all choose the lives we live. And that we cannot live or even understand someone else's life.
 
acbytesla said:
Have any of you read Illusions; The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah? Written by Richard Bach who is most famous for writing Jonathan Livingston Seagull. I read it in the late 1970s. It's about a Messiah that quit his job to barnstorm. He and another barnstormer fly together and he acts as a teacher for the other barnstormer. The book is really about philosophy but the philosophy lessons is wrapped up in the story.

It teaches us that life is an illusion and we all choose the lives we live. And that we cannot live or even understand someone else's life.
Click to expand...
That's one opinion.

I tend to the view that humans are capable of empathy and abstract reasoning, and that we can do a pretty good job of understanding each other's lives.
 
theprestige said:
That's one opinion.

I tend to the view that humans are capable of empathy and abstract reasoning, and that we can do a pretty good job of understanding each other's lives.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but what about when you don't have empathy? I have empathy for anyone being bullied and mistreated. But I don't and can't have empathy for someone who is gay or trans. I can not put myself in their shoes. And unless I have an identity crisis in my 70s, it isn't going to happen
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom