I'm pro gun ban, but I'm also anti bad-statistics.
NRA doesn't like Australia's Gun Stats
- Thread starter a_unique_person
- Start date
I'm pro gun ban, but I'm also anti bad-statistics.
Prove they are bad. All we have is your say so.
Yep.
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Australians can own firearms. They need to justify their ownership to the general population through an elected representative government. That's the way we like it. Some people spout rubbish like "draconian laws" and "Australians give up their rights" like they don't understand that we elect our lawmakers.
We also have the graph to look at. I didn't mean the numbers were false - I haven't looked into that - what I meant was the numbers, as shown, cannot support the conclusion.
I should have phrased it better than saying merely "bad statistics." I should have said a misapplication of statistics.
It's easy enough to see if I dredge up some similar numbers to support an unpopular position. Here is a listing of crimes in Midland, MI (my home town). You can see that murders had fallen to zero between 2001 and 2008. But suddenly, after Michigan legalized marijuana for medical use, the murder rate picked up again.
Am I justified in saying that medical marijuana leads to more murders in Midland, MI? Hardly. There really aren't enough murders overall to see a change.
atecom
Critical Thinker
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However we are dealing with events of different scale. Imagine the a flight company, let call them 'Midland' air. Running since 1950s and no crashes up to and including 2008. Then suddenly, 3 years in a row, a plane crashes, but only 1 plane for each year. Even though the event happens quite a low number of times, the event itself might be statistically significant enough to say something changed that has caused this. Lets suppose that in 2008, the company started allowing its pilots to smoke weed on duty. There exists a chance that these were caused by something else, but due to the scale of the catastrophe it would be less likely to be a coincidence than your murder stats.
While a massacre isn't as statistically significant as a plane crash, it is moreso than a murder, so when you suddenly have a period where 1-3 massacres are occuring for 5-6 years, then suddenly stop all together for the next 15, Its more likely that something changed, rather than just being a quirk of statistics.
While a massacre isn't as statistically significant as a plane crash, it is moreso than a murder, so when you suddenly have a period where 1-3 massacres are occuring for 5-6 years, then suddenly stop all together for the next 15, Its more likely that something changed, rather than just being a quirk of statistics.
Damien Evans
Up The Irons
Are you aware of just how long a boat trip that would be?
No. Glancing at Google maps, looks like about 300 miles from East Timor to Darwin.
Damien Evans
Up The Irons
I very much doubt any terrorists are going to attack Australia from East Timor.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
What are they going to attack up there anyway? If they miss Darwin, they are going to have to find some crocs.
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena, Pronouns: he/him
Gun ownership in Australia is not a right, it is a privilege. Anyone who requires a gun can get one, but you will have to justify your need according to the law.
If they do, they will have to bring their own guns.
Yes people occasionally get guns stolen by crims, however they tend to be using guns they have on each other. Basically guns are so hard to get that random depressed psychos can't get them, and the few criminals who do get them, tend to use them against their greatest threats (each other) and not against the general population.
But they aren't are they? And if they are they aren't using them against shopping malls, schools or cinemas. Why is that? Could it be because of effective gun laws?
Lol zero is much better than 1 or whatever the US is up to this year.
Shock! gun laws don't have an effect on depression and the reasons for suicide! They do however have an effect on the number of suicides attempted and committed by use of guns.
Similarly, the rate of robberies committed by people with firearms would be lessened. I would be interested in seeing the rate of survival of attempted suicide and robberies between Australia and the US.
Going a step further if the data is available, I would also be interested in a specific breakdown of survival rates of suicide attempts and robberies where guns were used vs ones where guns were not.
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Did you read my post as saying something it didn't?
When did firearm possession there cease to be a right and become a privilege?
Ranb
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
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How common were they before Port Arthur? And 7 people were shot in Monash.
I don't see why I have to disprove what was never proved in the first place. The graph was posted without any identification of the source material. a_u_p posted it, it's his burden to explain where it came from. I know it's suspiciously similar to the flawed mother jones article.
TubbaBlubba
Knave of the Dudes
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Ah, begging the question, how we love thee.
So are you suggesting that there never was a right to possess firearms in Australia? Since I don't live in Australia, I'm not familiar with what rights people have there. So do people there only have those rights granted to them by the government or is the law written to protect anything that is not prohibited by law?
Ranb
ETA: I have briefly looked at the Australian Constitution; it's much different than the one adopted by the US 113 years earlier.
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