Merged Now What?

[Belz...]

It could be argued that the EU is far more democratic

Nonsense. The people crafting and proposing laws in the EU are not elected. The representatives can only block a law. That seems back assward.

Also, now the UK won't have to accept migrants just because they were vetted by Germany.

You may not agree with their reasons, but they are reasons.

So the UK exports lots to the USA? It would be interesting, and indeed I'd do it if I could, if the USA put a hold on those post EU as a message to other nations that they should perhaps not vote for racism.

How in the blue hell was this related to racism in any way? Or wat this just you virtue-signaling that you're not a racist?

Sorry but if they voted for Leave they are racists.

That is one of the stupidest generalisations I've ever seen. This is as if the myriad considerations of the campaign didn't exist because you'd rather label those you disagree with rather than understand their concerns.

Sins of commission versus sins of omission....

I guess we're about to find out what the punishment is for apostasy in the EU...

 

[Ambrosia]

Quelle surprise

It's been a while since a Conservative government was extolling Victorian values, seems like we'll be working our way back to Victorian industrial conditions.

You might want to actually read the report.

Thanks for the link Guybrush Threepwood I hadn't read that.

I must admit that I am sad at the seeming lack of post Brexit planning that was done in advance. Aside from the BoE doing some work on managing the immediate aftermath of a Leave vote, there appears to have been precious little.

 

[Andy_Ross]

You might want to actually read the report.

Thanks for the link Guybrush Threepwood I hadn't read that.

I must admit that I am sad at the seeming lack of post Brexit planning that was done in advance. Aside from the BoE doing some work on managing the immediate aftermath of a Leave vote, there appears to have been precious little.

Because they weren't expecting to win and haven't a clue what they want to do next do they have all passed the Buck.

 

[MikeG]

.......I must admit that I am sad at the seeming lack of post Brexit planning that was done in advance...........

Yep, it's appalling. In a two horse race, always known to be closely fought, it is incomprehensible that Civil Servants weren't asked to do contingency planning months and months ago.

 

[MikeG]

Because they weren't expecting to win and haven't a clue what they want to do next do they have all passed the Buck.

Yeah, I think if people say this often enough it will get established as fact, despite being nonsense. Who has passed the buck? Boris was knifed, but he is arguably the only Leave leader to "pass the buck". Farage isn't a Conservative, so no buck to pass. Leadsom and Gove are standing for leadership of the Conservatives. Gisela Stuart is Labour. Cameron quit because he was on the wrong side of the result, and no-one would have trusted him to negotiate an exit he didn't believe in. So just who is "all" who have passed the buck?

 

[Ambrosia]

In other news Juncker might finally be given the boot. Long overdue.

Angela Merkel could move to oust Europe’s federalist chief Jean-Claude Juncker 'within the next year', a Germany government minister has said, in a sign of deepening European divisions over how to respond to Britain’s Brexit vote.

[link]

 

[The Don]

No, that was a think tank report, The Don, not a Conservative Party policy document.

True, but it goes back to my earlier questions about competitiveness

Brexit is supposed to make Britain more competitive in the world market but as far as I can see, that would only come at the expense of worker pay, conditions and safety and environmental protections. This think tank report seems to confirm that.

 

[The Don]

Nonsense. The people crafting and proposing laws in the EU are not elected. The representatives can only block a law. That seems back assward.

The parliament and council have the powers of amendment and veto so it's not simply a matter of blocking.

Also, now the UK won't have to accept migrants just because they were vetted by Germany.

You make it sound rather more easy than it really is. The process for becoming a German citizen was detailed in another thread, it's hardly a rubber stamp.

 

[GlennB]

Yeah, I think if people say this often enough it will get established as fact, despite being nonsense. Who has passed the buck? Boris was knifed, but he is arguably the only Leave leader to "pass the buck". Farage isn't a Conservative, so no buck to pass. Leadsom and Gove are standing for leadership of the Conservatives. Gisela Stuart is Labour. Cameron quit because he was on the wrong side of the result, and no-one would have trusted him to negotiate an exit he didn't believe in. So just who is "all" who have passed the buck?

He didn't have to negotiate an exit, just make a plan for an exit strategy. For example, as little as indicating who'd be responsible for triggering Art50.

 

[McHrozni]

You forgot some other questions.

What other financial markets will open up for business to offset some of the move to Paris or Frankfurt post Brexit?

If Brexit negotiations allow banks to continue passporting into EU markets how much will that ameliorate the rush to move?

If Scotland splits from the UK how many banks might move there, rather than continental Europe?

Is it healthier, for the long term prospects of the UK, to have less reliance on the financial sector for the total GDP?

Those answers are up to Brexitards to find. Prepare to be disappointed all the way, though.

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

Those answers are up to Brexitards to find. Prepare to be disappointed all the way, though......

Do you want honest engagement here, or are you just here to abuse your opponents? Do you know what I'd love to watch? You standing in front of Lord David Owen, and telling him he is a retard.

You may be the only person in this and other threads on the matter of Brexit who debases the argument with terms such as Brexitard. You haven't seen any Leavers or neutrals use such terms. Could you consider raising the tone a little, for the sake of everyone here?

 

[MikeG]

He didn't have to negotiate an exit, just make a plan for an exit strategy. For example, as little as indicating who'd be responsible for triggering Art50.

As I said above, I agree with this 100%. To not do so was a total abrogation of responsibility.

 

[MikeG]

........Brexit is supposed to make Britain more competitive in the world market.........

Supposed by some, no doubt. Others, however, might have considered economic competitiveness to be only one of several or many factors to consider, and may have calculated that a small reduction in competitiveness was a price worth paying for other things.

 

[Belz...]

It'll go through, and so it must; but that doesn't mean it's a sensible decision. It was based on lies and xenophobia.

How would you know? How would you know why people voted the way they did? The Remain campaign also played with fears and lies.

I think one of the things the leave camp underestimated is the general feeling in Europe that the UK always behaved like a bit of a spoiled child in the EU and now they want even more.
Noone forced the UK to join in the 70's, but they had to do so to actually get their economy going again.

The EU was a different beast 20 years ago. If they're dissatisfied with its current form, is it reasonable to chide them for liking its form from decades ago?

Evidence ?

[...]

a significant proportion of Leave supporters have showed that they are at worst racist and/or xenophobic and at best willing to allow themselves to be swayed by the racist and/or xenophobic messages put out by the Leave campaign

Evidence?

That's a very important point you make. All this nonsense about "undemocratic EU bureaucrats" is indeed monumental ignorance. The EU parliament is an elected body, with representation for all member states partially adjusted for population.

Does the EU parliament craft and propose EU laws?

The petition does raise an important point by itself however. In decisions as important and far-reaching as this one you do need to set the bar higher than the 50% plus one vote.

Why would you want to give the statu quo voters such a large benefit of the doubt?

You don't like the result. I know. But it is the result. I don't like it either. I think the people who voted that way are idiots or worse.

Well, that should go a long way towards healing that rift.

 

[McHrozni]

Do you want honest engagement here, or are you just here to abuse your opponents?

I want an honest engagement, of course. I find it's best to call a spade a spade.

McHrozni

 

[MikeG]

I want an honest engagement, of course. I find it's best to call a spade a spade........

You may have missed this:

.....Could you consider raising the tone a little, for the sake of everyone here?

 

[catsmate]

True, but it goes back to my earlier questions about competitiveness

Brexit is supposed to make Britain more competitive in the world market but as far as I can see, that would only come at the expense of worker pay, conditions and safety and environmental protections. This think tank report seems to confirm that.

Well once the recession bites there should be plenty of people to work for a pittance.

 

[uke2se]

Just a hands up survey: Anyone here regretting their own vote, whatever it was, seeing the beginning of the fallout after the referendum?

 

[Lothian]

Supposed by some, no doubt. Others, however, might have considered economic competitiveness to be only one of several or many factors to consider, and may have calculated that a small reduction in competitiveness was a price worth paying for other things.

like getting rid of foreigners.......

 

[Ambrosia]

Just a hands up survey: Anyone here regretting their own vote, whatever it was, seeing the beginning of the fallout after the referendum?

No.

If I knew then what I know now, I'd still have voted to leave.

I'm not happy at all at the lack of planning by the Leave camp, and some of the promises of the Leave campaign (£350m/week for NHS, quick reduction in immigration) never passed the smell test in the first place and didn't sway my vote anyway.

No doubt McHrozni will be along shortly to call me a Brexitard.