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Merged Now What?

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Meanwhile it's as if somebody gave every obnoxious racist in Britain a licence to take their vitriol onto the streets and throw it in the faces of anybody they don't like the look of.

All over the media - fill yer boots. No wonder Boris spent the day playing cricket rather than face his 'adoring public'.
 
Meanwhile it's as if somebody gave every obnoxious racist in Britain a licence to take their vitriol onto the streets and throw it in the faces of anybody they don't like the look of.

All over the media - fill yer boots. No wonder Boris spent the day playing cricket rather than face his 'adoring public'.

Haven't seen any of this but we've had other stories to focus on up here I suppose.
 
Facebook is filling up with stories about anyone with a non-British accent and/or non-white skin is reporting an increase in overt racist comments, generally of the, "time for you to **** off," variety.
I don't find half the population suddenly turning racist that believable
 
I don't find half the population suddenly turning racist that believable
Has that figure been suggested? What is being in fact proposed is that an element of whatever proportion of the population is inclined to racism is using the result of the referendum as an excuse to become publicly and overtly racist, so that a perceptible number of racist or xenophobic incidents has occurred. I don't find that very difficult to believe.
 
Has that figure been suggested? What is being in fact proposed is that an element of whatever proportion of the population is inclined to racism is using the result of the referendum as an excuse to become publicly and overtly racist, so that a perceptible number of racist or xenophobic incidents has occurred. I don't find that very difficult to believe.

Yep, existing racists simply emboldened by the Referendum result. Since it went "their" way, they think it's OK to openly espouse their hatred.

BBC News: Anti-Polish cards in Huntingdon after EU referendum
 
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Yep, existing racists simply emboldened by the Referendum result. Since it went "their" way, they think it's OK to openly espouse their hatred.

BBC News: Anti-Polish cards in Huntingdon after EU referendum

And while the poor people beat-up on each other, the rich people take yet another trip to the bank.

Ahhh....Divide and Conquer!


While Richie Rich was outsourcing our jobs
and foreclosing on Americans’ homes,
shutting off Grandma’s electricity
and turning her healthcare claims down

you were busy beating up Black guys,
Mexicans, Arabs and Asians
instead of standing up and facing the fact
you’ll never be – and never were – one of them,

those guys on the top of the money pyramid
who won the pissing contest by pissing on you.
You take it out on the people on your side
who Richie Rich has been pissing on, too.
 
Fairly sure it must have been remain people as it couldn't be brexiters because.
- “This is a victory for ordinary people, for good people, for decent people,” - Farage

And without a bullet fired.........okay only one.

Farage is a disgrace.
 
The principle of independence from the United Kingdom applies to the constituent countries of the United Kingdom, and not to smaller geographical areas. In the event of our gaining independence, it would be the height of arrogance for any future Scottish government to instruct the rump UK administration on how the affairs of Yorkshire, Gwent or Cornwall should be dealt with.

As I pointed out in #425, this is simply Unionist mischief making. The unionists don't give a toss about the particularities of the N Islands, as the UK has had centuries to deal with this, if any remedial action were required, and has done nothing. Any matter connected with those islands, or with any other part of this country, will be managed by an independent Scotland if and when it comes into being.

The partition of countries, including Ireland, that have had the impertinence to secede from the British Empire, is an old, tried and trusted imperial tactic. We're used to it. It is one of the things people expect in these processes. We are neither surprised not frightened by it.

By the way, the threat of territorial mutilation by amputation of the oil-rich N Islands conflicts with another Unionist scare tactic, which is to frighten people here with the notion that oil and gas are now permanently worthless, rendering independence financially impossible until the end of time.

This is Scottish imperialism. The Northern Isles have the lowest vote for the SNP and the highest vote to remain within the union. What right does the central belt elite have to take the Islands out of the Union against their will. If the people of the islands vote to remain in the union they should be allowed to. My understanding is this is identical to he argument that Nicola makes. Why are Scots allowed rights of self determination, but these are denied to Orcadians and Shetlanders? All minorities have heard this denial of their existence by the majority. I am sure that Spain says this about the Basques, the French about Corsica, the British about Scotland.

If you think this is English mischief making, this is SNP propaganda. When Nicola came to Kirkwall all the flags flying were Union flags and the cross of St Magnus. What do Orcadians or Shetlanders mean when they refer to the mainland?
 
And while the poor people beat-up on each other, the rich people take yet another trip to the bank.

Ahhh....Divide and Conquer!


While Richie Rich was outsourcing our jobs
and foreclosing on Americans’ homes,
shutting off Grandma’s electricity
and turning her healthcare claims down

you were busy beating up Black guys,
Mexicans, Arabs and Asians
instead of standing up and facing the fact
you’ll never be – and never were – one of them,

those guys on the top of the money pyramid
who won the pissing contest by pissing on you.
You take it out on the people on your side
who Richie Rich has been pissing on, too.

Sorry I don't recognise the reference and a quick search does not find it. TRB? Pink Floyd?
 
"Haud yer wheesht. Gove, I’ll gie ye skelpit lug.
Think o' the weans. Brexit, Ma hovercraft's lippit wi eels.
A bide in the EU ah teel ye"
From Google translate for anyone who's interested :
Now hold on a moment Mr Gove, I'll hit you upside the head. Think of the children, oh won't someone please think of the children. Brexit, my hovercraft is full of Python clichés. I remain in the EU I assure you.
 
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This is Scottish imperialism. The Northern Isles have the lowest vote for the SNP and the highest vote to remain within the union. What right does the central belt elite have to take the Islands out of the Union against their will. If the people of the islands vote to remain in the union they should be allowed to. My understanding is this is identical to he argument that Nicola makes. Why are Scots allowed rights of self determination, but these are denied to Orcadians and Shetlanders? All minorities have heard this denial of their existence by the majority. I am sure that Spain says this about the Basques, the French about Corsica, the British about Scotland.

If you think this is English mischief making, this is SNP propaganda. When Nicola came to Kirkwall all the flags flying were Union flags and the cross of St Magnus. What do Orcadians or Shetlanders mean when they refer to the mainland?

The key word in self determination is self. Not 'imagined by others'. Once someone gets elected on a ticket of independence for the northern isles we can discuss it.

The snp have done that hard part first.
 
This is Scottish imperialism. The Northern Isles have the lowest vote for the SNP and the highest vote to remain within the union. What right does the central belt elite have to take the Islands out of the Union against their will. If the people of the islands vote to remain in the union they should be allowed to. My understanding is this is identical to he argument that Nicola makes. Why are Scots allowed rights of self determination, but these are denied to Orcadians and Shetlanders? All minorities have heard this denial of their existence by the majority. I am sure that Spain says this about the Basques, the French about Corsica, the British about Scotland.

If you think this is English mischief making, this is SNP propaganda. When Nicola came to Kirkwall all the flags flying were Union flags and the cross of St Magnus. What do Orcadians or Shetlanders mean when they refer to the mainland?
The issue is whether Scotland will leave the UK. Scotland is the member of the UK by reason of Scotland's Union with England to form Britain in 1707. Nobody argued about the N Isles then.

As stated, this is simply the normal imperialist mischief seen in Ireland and India and Palestine. But these days have gone my friend. The Scottish government governs Scotland, not bits of it. All of it within the areas of autonomy it has received. And that's not imperialism, but governance. In a future independence referendum some parts of the country will vote yes and other bits will vote no. But the fate of the country as a whole will be determined by the majority. Bits of England voted different ways in the EU referendum. Is it intended to allow Brussels to cut England to pieces with a fret saw because of that? Nonsense. It all goes or all stays in the EU. Scotland will have a referendum and all go, or all stay in the UK.

My part of Scotland voted Yes in the 2014 referendum, but I don't think Scotland should be cut to bits to accommodate the wishes for independence of the local majority in this area. Neither do you. This is all nonsense intended to boost the Union.
 
The issue is whether Scotland will leave the UK. Scotland is the member of the UK by reason of Scotland's Union with England to form Britain in 1707. Nobody argued about the N Isles then.

As stated, this is simply the normal imperialist mischief seen in Ireland and India and Palestine. But these days have gone my friend. The Scottish government governs Scotland, not bits of it. All of it within the areas of autonomy it has received. And that's not imperialism, but governance. In a future independence referendum some parts of the country will vote yes and other bits will vote no. But the fate of the country as a whole will be determined by the majority. Bits of England voted different ways in the EU referendum. Is it intended to allow Brussels to cut England to pieces with a fret saw because of that? Nonsense. It all goes or all stays in the EU. Scotland will have a referendum and all go, or all stay in the UK.

My part of Scotland voted Yes in the 2014 referendum, but I don't think Scotland should be cut to bits to accommodate the wishes for independence of the local majority in this area. Neither do you. This is all nonsense intended to boost the Union.


But regarding this, surely you can see that one could use precisely the same argument to state that the UK Government governs the UK, not bits of it.

And as Francesca and Planigale have pointed out, it's interesting that the Northern Isles have the most economic incentive of, perhaps, all of the UK to leave the EU, and a strong desire to remain part of the UK. If Scotland gains independence from the UK and remains within the EU, it might not be too long until the representative councils of Orkney and Shetland demand a local plebiscite on rejoining the UK and/or leaving the EU. Interestingly, Orkney and Shetland both fielded candidates for the 1987 UK parliamentary General Election who campaigned on a platform of the Northern Isles devolving from Scotland. They received significant levels of voting support (though a very long way from getting anywhere near winning), so in the current combustible,fractious and uncertain climate (and especially if Scotland became independent and an EU member), support might be an awful lot higher.

I'm finding it extremely illuminating that in every interview I've seen with Sturgeon (or "Nicola" if you're so inclined :p) she's hammering home two points: 1) She and the Scottish Government will act "in the best interests of Scotland and the Scottish people", and (more importantly/interestingly) 2) If there is another referendum in Scotland, it will be focussed primarily on a "staying in" question, rather than a "leaving" question. In other words, Sturgeon is already seeking to frame any new Scottish referendum on explicitly and primarily gaining a mandate for Scotland to remain part of the EU, rather than explicitly seeking a mandate for Scotland to leave the UK.

This is an important (and pretty clever) repositioning/reframing by Sturgeon. Firstly, it at least partially deflates any argument (from the UK Government/parliament and any other stakeholders) that Scotland is seeking to have another "stay in UK vs leave the UK" referendum so soon after the first one; and secondly, if the result of such a referendum is a strong mandate for Scotland to remain within the EU, Sturgeon will use simple logic to infer that if a) the Scottish people want to remain within the EU, and b) the UK is in the process of leaving the EU, then the only way to implement the referendum outcome would be for Scotland to leave the UK.

In this way, Sturgeon and the SNP could almost get the Scottish independence they desire without ever having to ask that explicit question in any future referendum.

Of course, this strategy could be essentially scuppered if (for example) there's a November 2016 snap UK election which turns into a strange reassessment of the EU referendum result, and which results in the cessation of the "leave" wheels in motion and a repositioning of the UK within the EU.
 
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