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Noah's Ark

On large wooden ships: The Danish frigate "Jylland" is 71 meters long, and has a displacement of 2,456 tons. She is built completely in wood, was launched in 1860, and saw active service with the Danish Navy till 1892 (a quite normal active life-span for a wooden ship). She was rigged as a 3 mast full ship, an had a 400hp steam engine driving a retractable propeller.

The ship still exists as a museum ship, although it has been in dry-dock since 1984 (having been afloat for 124 consecutive years!).''

The Jylland was built based on centuries of experience building wooden ships and she and her contemporaries represent the apex (and end) of a long era of refining and development, over a whole continent.

The idea that a peasant family with no knowledge of ships, even provided with divine blueprints, should manage to build a ship more than twice the size, using a poorer quality of wood than the oak which went into the Jylland, and sail it, even just drifting with wind and current, is absurd. Add to this the task of tending to thousands of animals, and it isn't even good fiction any longer.

On a planet-wide open ocean, even a ship the size of The Ark would work heavily in the giant swell that would range unhindered across the globe, and months of this would put a heavy strain even on a steel hull. And, of course, this would add to the already overwhelming task of tending to the 'passengers', many of which would be perpetually sea-sick and a constant state of terror.

Frankly, the whole idea is completely silly: If God wanted a selected group to survive a flood, and he had to aid them in boat-building and guide all the animals to and from the boat anyways, then why not just guide them all to a high spot and leave that unflooded? Seems this god, while omnipotent, is a remarkably poor problem-solver.

Hans
 
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To bring the Flood legend back down to size:

It was created by peasants with no idea of how many kinds of animals existed. They thought they needed to just cater for a few hundred individual animals, most of them domestic.

The description and size of the Ark is taken from an Egyptian depiction (still existing) of a contemporary barge for transporting two obelisks on the calm Nile waters. Only, because of the special Egyptian tradition for handling perspective, the obelisks are drawn as if they are placed end to end, (instead of the obvious side by side placement) making the drawing show the barge twice its real lengh. ... I have this story somewhere, must find the book.

Hans
 
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On large wooden ships: The Danish frigate "Jylland" is 71 meters long, and has a displacement of 2,456 tons. She is built completely in wood, was launched in 1860, and saw active service with the Danish Navy till 1892 (a quite normal active life-span for a wooden ship). She was rigged as a 3 mast full ship, an had a 400hp steam engine driving a retractable propeller.

How did they build a steam engine out of wood?
 
It was all done "Miraculously"TM don't you know? ;) :p

I know you are joking, but that response is valid as far as I am concerned.

Look, I have mocked Creationsists more than the average JREFer, but questions about available water and stress on animals are altogether meaningless. If a Being can create the universe, surely such a Being can transport animals to one location; reduce their need for food and water; maintain their health; hold together a leaky, ill-proportioned wooden vessel; and so forth. He can also create flood water from nothing and return it to nothing.

The only valid question is why is there absolutely no evidence of such a flood. Fields as diverse as cellular biology and geology indicate that there has been no world-wide flood in the past 20,000. Dozens of different branches of science indicate there was no flood. That is the issue.
 
How did they build a steam engine out of wood?

The ship was built from wood. The steam engine, anchors, telescopes, cannon, knives and forks were not. Neither were the ropes.

Seriously, though, placing a steam engine in a wooden sailng vessel has its own challenges. It seems the engine itself needed constant adjustment on axels, bearings and such, because the elasticity of the hull caused it to get misalingned whenever it ran.

Also, of course, extreme precautions were needed to avoid a fire hazard from the boilers.

Finally, this being a navy ship, soot on the sails was a big issue, so every time they were to fire up the boilers, an officer first had to go down in the boiler room and fire his pistol up through the funnel, so the soot gathered there could shake loose and fall down.

If you ever come near the town of Ebeltoft in Denmark, the frigate Jylland is a must see.

Hans
 
I know you are joking, but that response is valid as far as I am concerned.

As MRC_Hans said, that gawd character is incredibly unimaginative and a very poor problem solver... If you want to use *MAGIC* as the answer, then there are a myriad of much, much better ways to do things. It is blatantly obvious to the most casual observer that the Noah myth is a plagarism of Babylonian myths regarding river flooding.

The only valid question is why is there absolutely no evidence of such a flood.

*MAGIC* See, wasn't that easy? :p
 
As MRC_Hans said, that gawd character is incredibly unimaginative and a very poor problem solver... If you want to use *MAGIC* as the answer, then there are a myriad of much, much better ways to do things. It is blatantly obvious to the most casual observer that the Noah myth is a plagarism of Babylonian myths regarding river flooding.

Greek mythology also has a flood story.

[fundie]Seee? With so many religions telling the story, it MUST be true[/fundie]

Or, several mythologies from the area all have the same origin.

Hans
 
While I no longer believe the story of Noah & the ark to be true, it is still my favorite bible story and I also love reading about the earlier version of the story as well.

I guess the story is just appeals to me on a gut level, me having been a Navy Sailor back in the day. ;)

I mean, the whole world gets flooded and the only survivors ride it out in a giant boat? How cool is that?

My dad took me to see this movie at the theater when it was released in the seventies: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7808630060796690151#

It really got me fired up at the time. :D Even though I can see through it now, I still have a bit of a soft spot for it.

Regards, Canis
 
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The core story, some guy lucks into having a large enough craft to save some of his friends and animals during a local flood is quite plausible.
But the tale grew in the telling..... :)
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http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/
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Some of the accompanying comments are funny also. :)
 
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Two facts always missing from discussions of this story:

1) Where did the water go? We're talking a MASSIVE amount of water here, several times what's currently in the oceans.

2) The first rainbow happened after the flood ended? What, did God decide "Oh yeah, I should work on that whole refraction thing" after he hit the reset button? Did refraction not work prior to the flood?

As for the boat, it's just silly. Even if the boat's dimensions were possible (and good arguments have been made that they were not), we're talking a rainstorm that would be beyond anything seen today. It took hundreds, if not thousands, of years to re-fill the Mediteranian basin last time, and this was a violent enough to leave pretty distinct evidence in the rock record. Noah would have had to contend with massive landslides, stream velocities that at a rough guess would wreck a minesweeper, and other natural disasters which a wooden boat is not capable of withstanding. Floods are not calm events--check out videos fo the Queensland flooding on YouTube sometime to see the destructive potential of a comparatively minor flood (compared to Noah's, that is--it's still a major flood by any rational standard). In particualr, look at what the water does when it encounters obstructions. No wooden structure can survive it (I say "structure" because I've seen videos of houses floating down rivers, and when they hit an obstruction they are no longer houses, or in pieces larger than a good sized chair).

Oh, a third issue never raised: Why bother with a flood? The geologic record shows us a number of ways to hit life's reset button. A creative biochemist can probably find others, which wouldn't require one to ignore whole fields of science (it wouldn't leave much of a trace). God saves a particular village, which he called all land animals to. God gets to be a vengeful child, the world is mostly destroyed, two of each kind, and Christians aren't left ignoring seamanship as well as geology, biology, physics, etc.
 
Robert Silverberg's series on"Gilgamesh in Hell" is good reading.
The choice of locations lets the guy meet just about everyone famous, while he's pining away for ol' Enlil.
 
I wonder if Dr. Henry Morris III really said that about Stephan Hawking.

Shame on him if he did. Shame on the Portland Mercury if not.
 
I wonder if Dr. Henry Morris III really said that about Stephan Hawking.

Shame on him if he did. Shame on the Portland Mercury if not.

Everything I can find on the internet about this quote sources back to the newspapers cartoon. On the other hand, my Google-Fu is not all that impressive.
 
...Allowing for additional wood to replace the much stronger and more rigid iron we can presume that the ark would have an unladen mass somewhere near 30,000 tons, equivalent to 937,500 cubic feet of seawater, about 3/5 of the total volume of 1,518,750 cubic feet (per Oelrich) submerged, leaving a maximum capacity of 581,250 cubic feet (at best, the equivalent of two 33,750 square-foot decks of the ark) for all purposes.

What does seawater have to do with anything? We don't have data on the composition of the waters released during the inundation, but if we suppose the 40 day rain was fresh water, an Ark designed with seawater in mind might have serious bouyancy problems as the surface water salinity dropped.

But I'm sure god thought of that and explained to Noah about flotation bags. There would be plenty animal hides available...
 

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