Mubarak has resigned!!!!!!!

portlandatheist said:
I'm actually pretty optimistic about Egypt.
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I'm cautiously pessimistic.

I will be very pleasantly surprised if a secular government is established.

I once read through the constitution of Iran (established by Khomeini's revolution). It's very liberal sounding except for its theocratic ideology that gives an unhealthy trust in "wise men". I like to contrast that with the sysmtem of checks and balances in the U.S. Constitution that shows a very healthy distrust of political leaders.

I will be pleasantly surprised if what they end up with is more like the U.S. Constitution than it is like Iran's. Whether or not the new government is tyrannical may be depend more on the wisdom and goodness of the leaders than on the system of government.
 
Ben Adams said:
Before You Go:

Where's the $300,000,000,000 you stole from the Egyptian people?

I think they should put his ass in jail until he coughs up the money.
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Got to be careful about these things. People thought that Mobutu had a decent amount of cash stashed away. The evidence suggests that may well not have been the case.
 
I'm optimistic.

As I understand, the Egypt state and government are still functional. The protestors demanded Mubarak's resignation, and a number of specific reforms. It's much easier to implement those in an existing system than to overthrow everything and build a new government from scratch.

So I think they have a good chance to develop something better.
 
Thunder said:
no no!!!

the Muslim Brotherhood will take over and Egypt will become an Islamo-fascist state!!! their first act will be to declare genocidal war on Israel!!

;)
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So if Israel then nukes Egypt and turns the Gizeh plain to glass, does that mean the Pyramids will become all shiny again?
 
Toontown said:
I just mentioned the peacefulness of the transfer of power to the military council in another thread:

"So far, the transfer to the Egyptian military has been relatively peaceful. This is a military which has had close ties to the Pentagon for decades. The Egyptian military is showing the earmarks of an honorable military, one which might be willing to be the guarantors of democracy, like it's U.S. counterpart and partner."
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Well yes I have to agree, like in Tunisia the military have at least appeared to be neutral but they (the generals etc.) are deeply enmeshed with the Mubarak regime. So while it looks promising I think it is going to be a matter of some time before we can be sure of the military's intentions.
 
Thunder said:
no no!!!

the Muslim Brotherhood will take over and Egypt will become an Islamo-fascist state!!! their first act will be to declare genocidal war on Israel!!

;)
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Well, the MB have been around since 1928 and are not to be trifled with. Truly a worthy adversary.

Anyway, a big internet brofist to those at Tahir Square. :)
 
Thunder said:
I heard that Mubarak was the third longest running leader in Egytian history, going back 5,000 years. The other two were both Pharoahs.
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Na, not even close. You have to remember that Egypt has spent most of its history as a province of a wider empire, and local governors seldom held the position for more than a couple of years. But strictly speaking the ruler of Egypt during that time would be the ruler of the larger empire. So for example Augustus was Emperor of Rome for 45 years ("officially" for 41) and as such was ruler of Egypt for 44 years. During that time, however, there were no less than ten Roman Prefects who ran the Province of Egypt.

In any event, there were dozens of Pharoahs who ruled for more than 30 years, and that's only counting those we know dates for. In the first and second dynasties alone there were five (maybe six) Pharoahs who ruled longer than Mubarak.
 
egslim said:
I'm optimistic.

As I understand, the Egypt state and government are still functional. The protestors demanded Mubarak's resignation, and a number of specific reforms. It's much easier to implement those in an existing system than to overthrow everything and build a new government from scratch.

So I think they have a good chance to develop something better.
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This is a good point. No need to be starting again from scratch here people. Egypt is a democratic Republic. It just hasn't had particularly good leaders, committed to democratic ideals. But the system is in place. What they probably want is a host of anti-corruption measures put in place so that a single corrupt regime can't just seize power again.

Having said that, I've often wondered, in countries like my own, or the USA, or similar, what would actually happen if a given government just refused to leave?
 
Yemen, PA, Iran, Saudi Arabia - In that order
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Pennsylvania?? They were toppled last week by the GB Packers.:D

I'm an (Used Robot Voice) "Egyptian Lover, Egypt, Egypt, Egyptian Lover Baybeh!" (Pulls out a piece of cardboard to bust a break move on.)
 
egslim said:
I'm optimistic.

As I understand, the Egypt state and government are still functional. The protestors demanded Mubarak's resignation, and a number of specific reforms. It's much easier to implement those in an existing system than to overthrow everything and build a new government from scratch.

So I think they have a good chance to develop something better.
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.
That was one (of many) blunders the Bushies committed in Iraq, when they disbanded all the civil authorities as B'aathists, and compounded the felony by dismissing the army, leaving nobody in control.
Which led to the collapse of the public utilities, with everything not welded and cemented in place being stolen because it wasn't guarded.
And the abandonment of the military bases let the thieves run off with all the artillery shells now being used as IEDs.
Bushie had -no- after-victory plan.
Egypt may be in the same situation, but there is still some manner of government to keep things going.
And the parliamentary system allows differing parties to align with a central goal.
What that goal may be... more democracy or another strong-man dictator, only time can reveal.
 
gumboot said:
This is a good point. No need to be starting again from scratch here people. Egypt is a democratic Republic. It just hasn't had particularly good leaders, committed to democratic ideals. But the system is in place. What they probably want is a host of anti-corruption measures put in place so that a single corrupt regime can't just seize power again.
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Yeah, that's one of the things I mentioned earlier that separate Egypt of 2011 from Iran of 1979.

Egypt is at a crossroads, and can go down the path of democracy from here. But will it?

I'm hopeful, but wary.
 
I have a co-worker from Egypt, and he wasn't particularly happy about this development. He agrees that Mubarak needed to leave, but when it happens fast like this, he is afraid it will cause a power vaccum and set various military leaders against each other. He thinks the violence is about to begin in earnest.
 
Tricky said:
I have a co-worker from Egypt, and he wasn't particularly happy about this development. He agrees that Mubarak needed to leave, but when it happens fast like this, he is afraid it will cause a power vaccum and set various military leaders against each other. He thinks the violence is about to begin in earnest.
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This is my thinking as well. And it is not out of the question that an Islamist group will use their organizing capabilities to seize what they can while they can.
 
alfaniner said:
I have the feeling that something awful is about to happen...
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I have the feeling that with the help of the USA and EU, something wonderful is going to happen in the Middle East.

Bush hoped and prayed that the fall of Hussein and a democatic Iraq would lead to a tidal wave of democracy throughout the Middle East. This did not occur.

Instead, Facebook, Twitter, Blackberry, and the will of the people have toppled dictatorship in Egypt and I think it will spread.

When Muslims in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Libya, Iran, and Jordan see real inclusive democracy developing in Egypt...they will go nuts and demand it in their own countries aswell.
 
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