Michael Moore expresses Joy at GM Demise!

[six7s]

Hell, Bozo the clown can cause a lot of people to think.

If, rather than simply inane asides, you have a point to make then please do

 

[boloboffin]

In the end he is advocating de facto government seizure of the entire automobile industry,and seems to want to force Americans out of privately owned cares.

Two wonderful straw men, and you beat them admirably, but no and no.

He's not saying the government should take over anything (Ford's still around, aren't they?). He's saying, now that we've got them, let's do some good with them. I agree that some of his ideas are not workable. But some are. Even with competition from other companies, the factories can be used to get the country's infrastructure up to speed and then transition back into efficient privately owned cars like hybrids and electrics.

 

[dudalb]

I am just opposed to a total Government takeover of the Transportation industry in the US.
And make no mistake about it, that is what Moore is advocating.

 

[boloboffin]

I am just opposed to a total Government takeover of the Transportation industry in the US.
And make no mistake about it, that is what Moore is advocating.

You can keep typing it until your fingers are numb, but that won't make it true. Produce the quote where Moore says we should grab Ford and other companies that are doing all right.

 

[dudalb]

Two wonderful straw men, and you beat them admirably, but no and no.

He's not saying the government should take over anything (Ford's still around, aren't they?). He's saying, now that we've got them, let's do some good with them. I agree that some of his ideas are not workable. But some are. Even with competition from other companies, the factories can be used to get the country's infrastructure up to speed and then transition back into efficient privately owned cars like hybrids and electrics.

And I think you just do not want to admit how radical Moore is.
Get this straight: Moore is not mainstream liberal. He is much,much further to the left then that.
I particularly find his determination to force the American people into using public transportation to be disturbing.
And I also have little faith in government to be able to run GM efficently.

 

[boloboffin]

And I think you just do not want to admit how radical Moore is.
Get this straight: Moore is not mainstream liberal. He is much,much further to the left then that.
I particularly find his determination to force the American people into using public transportation to be disturbing.
And I also have little faith in government to be able to run GM efficently.

I know, I know: Michael Moore Bad.

But one would think that you could use his actual positions to condemn him rather than making them up.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

As for Moore, keep in mind he lives in a world where businessmen and engineers and scientists labor hard so they can earn no more money than an uneducated buffoon on the assembly line, who would be lucky to not starve to death, left to his own devices.

(my bold above)

I find this statement to be both distressing and unfortunate.

The obvious elitism and blind prejudice is distressing, as is the clear evidence of a fundamentally twisted and uninformed view of people who earn (yes, I said earn) their living by getting their hands dirty.

It is unfortunate because I find it difficult to consider without prejudice of my own any other statements made by someone who offers this one, even if those statements might be of merit.

 

[MattusMaximus]

I'm kind of hopeful. Every car I have ever driven is GM or Ford. My next car won't be unless GM produces a quality fuel efficient vehicle, and I have little confidence that they will. I'm hopeful because maybe GM will come out on the other side adapting to the changing economy. What does not adapt, adopt and improve to change will die off.

My sentiments exactly. Of course, my first vehicle was a Ford, and that set of experiences has led me to my new love... Toyota

 

[technoextreme]

The obvious elitism and blind prejudice is distressing, as is the clear evidence of a fundamentally twisted and uninformed view of people who earn (yes, I said earn) their living by getting their hands dirty.

It is unfortunate because I find it difficult to consider without prejudice of my own any other statements made by someone who offers this one, even if those statements might be of merit.

As an engineer and as someone who has worked in factories I can safely say that Beerina is speaking out of her #()*#)(Q*)(*. I understand your feeling because it lacks a fundamental basis in reality.

 

[wackyvorlon]

I am troubled by the ad hominem attacks being used against Michael Moore, but I have yet to see anyone provide citations and evidence to back up their statements. It sounds very similar to language I see coming from the anti-vaxers when Dr. Offit comes up.

 

[technoextreme]

I am troubled by the ad hominem attacks being used against Michael Moore, but I have yet to see anyone provide citations and evidence to back up their statements. It sounds very similar to language I see coming from the anti-vaxers when Dr. Offit comes up.

Have you read his blog post? It pretty much speaks for itself.

 

[six7s]

I am just opposed to a total Government takeover of the Transportation industry in the US.
And make no mistake about it, that is what Moore is advocating.

You can keep typing it until your fingers are numb, but that won't make it true. Produce the quote where Moore says we should grab Ford and other companies that are doing all right.

@boloboffin:

You took the words out of my mouth! ​

@dudalb:

You have yet to 'produce quote where Moore says we should grab Ford and other companies that are doing all right'.

Are you going to even try?

Or will you acknowledge that you might have been (were?) merely spouting straw?​

 

[technoextreme]

@boloboffin:

You took the words out of my mouth! ​

@dudalb:

You have yet to 'produce quote where Moore says we should grab Ford and other companies that are doing all right'.

Are you going to even try?

Or will you acknowledge that you might have been (were?) merely spouting straw?​

1. Just as President Roosevelt did after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the President must tell the nation that we are at war and we must immediately convert our auto factories to factories that build mass transit vehicles and alternative energy devices.

READ PEOPLE READ. Also, what sane person puts black text on a gray background?

 

[quadraginta]

My sentiments exactly. Of course, my first vehicle was a Ford, and that set of experiences has led me to my new love... Toyota

I agree.

I have always been a firm believer in capitalism. Buy the best product at the best price. This has led to Datsun/Nissan, Volvo, Toyota, Mazda, and yes, even some GM.

If nationalism is a consideration then there should be some recognition of that in the "American" products offered. Years ago a youngster at work was showing off his new car, a Nova. He was quite proud of the patriotism he had exhibited by "buying American". When he popped the hood I found myself gazing at a Toyota engine identical to the one I had worked on in my mom-in-law's Corolla the weekend before.

I thought that was particularly unfortunate because the four cyl. offering it replaced, the 151 cu. in. "Iron Duke" was one of GM's best small engine efforts, and well proven. It was, in fact the reason for one of my rare GM purchases.

Product decisions such as this made it very difficult for me to have any real sympathy for GM's difficulties.

Has anyone here read Halberstam's "The Reckoning"?

Kind of a shame more people in the U.S auto industry hadn't, or at least hadn't with an open mind.

 

[wackyvorlon]

Have you read his blog post? It pretty much speaks for itself.

See, here's my problem: That's not an argument. If you have an issue with what he says, that's fine. But make a cogent argument in the process, please.

 

[six7s]

<snip/>
As for Moore, keep in mind he lives in a world where businessmen and engineers and scientists labor hard so they can earn no more money than an uneducated buffoon on the assembly line, who would be lucky to not starve to death, left to his own devices.

(my bold above)

I find this statement to be both distressing and unfortunate.

The obvious elitism and blind prejudice is distressing, as is the clear evidence of a fundamentally twisted and uninformed view of people who earn (yes, I said earn) their living by getting their hands dirty.

It is unfortunate because I find it difficult to consider without prejudice of my own any other statements made by someone who offers this one, even if those statements might be of merit.

As an engineer and as someone who has worked in factories I can safely say that Beerina is speaking out of her #()*#)(Q*)(*. I understand your feeling because it lacks a fundamental basis in reality.

Please prove that "Beerina is speaking out of her #()*#)(Q*)(*." by citing evidence that businessmen and engineers and scientists who do labor hard all earn more money than uneducated buffoons on assembly lines

TYIA

 

[Travis]

History will record this blunder in the same way it now writes about the French building the Maginot Line or how the Romans cluelessly poisoned their own water system with lethal lead in its pipes.

But the Maginot line was effective as the Germans did everything they could to avoid attacking it and the Roman lead poisoning thing is just a myth. So he wants history to think of GM as something that, while misunderstood, worked but might not have existed at all?

 

[quadraginta]

Please prove that "Beerina is speaking out of her #()*#)(Q*)(*." by citing evidence that businessmen and engineers and scientists who do labor hard all earn more money than uneducated buffoons on assembly lines

TYIA

Perhaps we can discuss the the part of the statement which you chose to select under separate cover.

The part which I bolded included this assertion, which you chose to leave out.,

"... who would be lucky to not starve to death, left to his own devices."
​

This was the sentiment which I addressed.

Of course, you know that.

Sadly, the point which you are trying so ineptly to misrepresent my post as addressing is one which under other circumstances I might be in some sympathy with.

This is what I spoke of as well in my original post, when I said,

"It is unfortunate because I find it difficult to consider without prejudice of my own any other statements made by someone who offers this one, even if those statements might be of merit."​

 

[six7s]

But the Maginot line was effective as the Germans did everything they could to avoid attacking it and the Roman lead poisoning thing is just a myth. So he wants history to think of GM as something that, while misunderstood, worked but might not have existed at all?

Does your browser run on straw?

Tip: if you want to find out what Moore wants, read moor Moore

 

[six7s]

Perhaps we can discuss the the part of the statement which you chose to select under separate cover.

The part which I bolded included this assertion, which you chose to leave out.,

"... who would be lucky to not starve to death, left to his own devices."
​

This was the sentiment which I addressed.

Of course, you know that.

I am sincere when I say that I wasn't intentionally twisting your words... rather I was merely focussing on the first bit... erm... first...

I acknowledge that there is a steaming heap of hyperbole flying around... and I'm happy to let it drop