• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Mass shooting at Bondi Beach

Planigale said:
If you truly think the war started only two years ago you are sadly ignorant of the last eighty years of history. The war may have flared two years ago but it certainly didn't start two years ago. Hamas did make several overtures to make peace with Israel prior to the current events; rejected by Israel. 'From the sea to the river' is the policy of Likud the party of the current Israeli prime minister. Why should it be wrong for Arabs to have 'from the river to the sea' as a policy but acceptable for the Israeli government to have 'the Sea to the River' as a policy?

Why are there no reports of the daily attacks by Jewish terrorists on Christian and Muslim arabs?
https://twitter.com/x/status/1998469382687830255
theconversation.com

West Bank violence is soaring, fueled by a capitulation of Israeli institutions to settlers’ interests

Reluctance to address settler violence is the outcome of deep social, political and cultural changes, a scholar of Israeli extremist groups argues.
theconversation.com theconversation.com

Maybe you won't see Jews attacking Muslims in 'our streets', but you could see it on the streets of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza if you looked. Thousands being killed. Thousands of Muslim children killed by Jews.

Violence is wrong no matter who does it; but especially if it is done by state agencies.
Click to expand...
Wow, you have the hide to lecture me on history? There has not been a serious peace deal put to Israel since 1978. All the excuses for peace deals had conditions no Israel would accept.

And, as this thread is about an act in Australia I was referring to Australian streets.
 
Planigale said:
Why should it be wrong for Arabs to have 'from the river to the sea' as a policy but acceptable for the Israeli government to have 'the Sea to the River' as a policy?
Click to expand...
It's not. If it was, the Palestinians would all be dead or expelled already, because Israel has the power to do that.

But they aren't. Which means it's not the government policy.

Hamas thankfully does not have that power. Nevertheless, they tried. And we can and should blame them for that, and for the war they started, and the dead Palestinians they are responsible for. Nothing Israel did justified Oct. 7. But Oct. 7 very much justified Israel's military response. Hamas wanted dead Palestinians. They got their wish.
 
arthwollipot said:
This particular attack absolutely is unique.
Click to expand...
Only in Australia. But why would you expect Australia to be special? Why would you expect Australia to be different from places where this happens more often?
arthwollipot said:
Nothing on this level has been seen before.
Click to expand...
Maybe not in Australia. It's been seen elsewhere plenty of times. And it will likely be seen in Australia again.
arthwollipot said:
Why did they do it?
Click to expand...
I told you: they hate Jews. And Islam taught them to hate Jews.
arthwollipot said:
Why did they do it here
Click to expand...
Because that's where the perps live.
arthwollipot said:
and why did they do it now?
Click to expand...
Because they like to kill Jews on Jewish religious holidays.
arthwollipot said:
I suspect that we'll never get definitive answers to these questions, but I speculate that it could be retaliation for Israel's actions in Gaza. I have no proof of this, but it would not surprise me if it were true.
Click to expand...
Again, this may be the pretext, but it's not the reason. It's never the reason, even for the terrorists who claim it is.

And I don't think you're asking the right question. I told you why the attacks happened. The question you didn't ask is, why didn't it happen before? There's probably a lot you could learn from the answer to that question, but I bet absolutely nobody in the Australian government even wants to touch it.
 
That's right, folks. Let's import all the centuries-long horrific antagonism from the Middle East to Australia. We haven't had enough tragedies and killings to put us on the world rankings yet. Let's start a kill-a-wog competition scoreboard too. See who can get the most before Christmas!

:sarcasm:

But seriously... Are we sure the Bondi shooters were members of, or acting on behalf of, Hamas, or as some protest about the Gaza situation? If not, aren't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves here? Because there's plenty of other people in Australia besides a few Arabs who hold particularly violent animus towards Jews in general, including Iranians and Iraqis and Balkans, and a lot of the Aryan white skinhead-type far-right (yep, we do have these ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ pricks here).

Just FYI, I do think this shooting was well organised, despite what the police say. They turned up on the day and time of a large Jewish festival with big bags of ammo and many guns, and they came all the way from the western suburbs to Bondi on a busy day. They picked their spot to shoot from to do the most damage. So it was not a spur-of-the-moment thing.
 
While it's inevitable that in a situation like this there is going to be a certain amount of overlap, there's a specific thread for the Israel/Palestine conflict in particular, so can we try to put that part of the discussion there? This thread's for the shooting.
 
Ziggurat said:
I already told you. What about my answer doesn't suffice?
Click to expand...
Because antisemitism exists and doesn't inevitably result in the largest mass shooting Australia has seen since Port Arthur.

Ziggurat said:
That might be true in Australia.
Click to expand...
Yes. That's what I'm saying. I'm talking about Australia because I'm talking about yesterday's attack.

Ziggurat said:
They did it in Australia because that's where they live.

They did it now because it's during a Jewish religious holiday. Islamic terrorists like to kill Jews on Jewish holidays.
Click to expand...
There have been Muslims living in Australia for a long time now. There have been Jewish religious holidays for a long time. Why did these particular Muslims decide to become terrorists now, of all times and not at any other time in the last thirty years of Jewish religious holidays?

The media is now reporting that the younger shooter was known by ASIO to be close to a man who was part of a known Islamic State terrorist cell, and who is currently serving time in prison for planning terrorist activity. Two Islamic State flags were found in their car.

 
arthwollipot said:
Because antisemitism exists and doesn't inevitably result in the largest mass shooting Australia has seen since Port Arthur.
Click to expand...
Non-Islamic antisemites don't generally resort to terrorism, that's true. Islamic antisemites often do. It's not unusual.
arthwollipot said:
Yes. That's what I'm saying. I'm talking about Australia because I'm talking about yesterday's attack.
Click to expand...
I know that. But again, why would you expect Australia to be special? And if it is special, what do you think makes it special?
arthwollipot said:
There have been Muslims living in Australia for a long time now.
Click to expand...
Has that community changed at all over time? Is the Muslim community in Australia today the same as it was, say, 30 years ago?
 
arthwollipot said:
There have been Muslims living in Australia for a long time now.
Click to expand...
The Ghan train is named after the Afghan cameleers who helped "white Europeans" open up the centre of Australia.
arthwollipot said:
There have been Jewish religious holidays [in Australia] for a long time.
Click to expand...
Since the First Fleet in 1788.
arthwollipot said:
Why did these particular Muslims decide to become terrorists now, of all times and not at any other time in the last thirty years of Jewish religious holidays?

The media is now reporting that the younger shooter was known by ASIO to be close to a man who was part of a known Islamic State terrorist cell, and who is currently serving time in prison for planning terrorist activity. Two Islamic State flags were found in their car.

Click to expand...
There you go. But don't worry! In 2020, ISIS was 100% destroyed by Trump! So this attack is obviously fake news.
 
arthwollipot said:
The media is now reporting that the younger shooter was known by ASIO to be close to a man who was part of a known Islamic State terrorist cell, and who is currently serving time in prison for planning terrorist activity. Two Islamic State flags were found in their car.

Click to expand...
"Prime Minister Anthony Albanese confirmed Naveed Akram first came to ASIO's attention in October 2019 and was under investigation for a period of six months but there was an assessment he posed no ongoing threat."

Boy, did they get that assessment wrong. Ever heard the term "known wolf"? That's what we have here. Again.
 
Ziggurat said:
I know that. But again, why would you expect Australia to be special? And if it is special, what do you think makes it special?
Click to expand...
I don't think it's special. Not among developed nations, at any rate. When was the last attack on the Jewish community of this magnitude in a developed Western democracy with strong gun regulation?
 
arthwollipot said:
I don't think it's special. Not among developed nations, at any rate. When was the last attack on the Jewish community of this magnitude in a developed Western democracy with strong gun regulation?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why the magnitude is really the critical measure. An attempt to kill a bunch of people is an attempt to kill a bunch of people. Success is partly down to luck, partly down to the competence of the perpetrator, partly down to how hardened the target is. Nobody should assume that if they've been lucky with these attacks in the past, that they will continue to be in the future. The details of why a particular attack was very successful or not is worth consideration, but it doesn't really touch on the issue of why an attack happens in the first place.

And there was a very recent attempt at a mass killing of Jews in Manchester, UK, just over two months ago. The perp only managed to kill 2 people, but he was trying for a lot more.

Australia isn't special. It can expect more such attacks in the future, unless it takes steps to become special, to become a place Islamic terrorists don't attack.
 
lionking said:
Well if the father could get hold of 6 semi-auto shot guns legally, the laws need to change. What could possibly be the reason for owning that many semi-autos? Are there breeds of giant killer kangaroos that we haven’t been told about?
Click to expand...
From Google AI, so take it with a grain of salt:
...semi-automatic shotguns can be legal in Australia, but they are heavily restricted to Category C or Category D licences, requiring a proven "genuine reason" like primary production (farming/pest control) or occupational use, with strict limits on magazine capacity (usually 5 rounds) and subject to state/territory laws and the National Firearms Agreement (NFA) from 1996. Standard sport shooters typically only have access to Categories A & B (manual repeaters/break-action).
Click to expand...
IMHO, if at least one of these perps was known as associating with IS, it would be hard to see how anyone in the family would be permitted a firearm license of any category let alone for Cat C or D weapons. So I suggest either these weapons were not licensed, or they were "borrowed" from someone who is.
 
Norman Alexander said:
From Google AI, so take it with a grain of salt:

IMHO, if at least one of these perps was known as associating with IS, it would be hard to see how anyone in the family would be permitted a firearm license of any category let alone for Cat C or D weapons. So I suggest either these weapons were not licensed, or they were "borrowed" from someone who is.
Click to expand...
It has been reported that the guns were perfectly legal and registered to the father. If so, something has badly gone wrong. These guys were not farmers to start with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom