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Man arrested for shooting person who tried to steal the man's car

OK, correct me if I'm wrong on this.

The AR-15 is a military type rifle. It was/is issued to soldiers.
I believe (and again, far from an expert) that the AR-15 is a civilian version of a military weapon. I believe the main difference is that the AR-15 is semiautomatic only, whereas the military version can fire full auto. If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let me know.

But yes, it should still have a robust safety. Guns don't usually go off accidentally.
 
IIRC, similar to California's Castle Doctrine, you can't shoot at a fleeing criminal outside of your home.

He's looking at doing some time for this, as he should.

Re: first sentence: that is why you need to get them while they are in the house.

Oooor, if they have a gun call out so they turn with it in hand. If you get my drift and I think you do!!!
 
Police have a mandate to protect life and property. It's in their job description. Civilian property owners do not have this mandate. They have a mandate to protect their own lives. Police should therefore have a little more leeway around their decision to use lethal force.

So you would support a cop shooting someone for stealing a car but not a civilian? When should the police use lethal force to protect private property?
 
I believe (and again, far from an expert) that the AR-15 is a civilian version of a military weapon. I believe the main difference is that the AR-15 is semiautomatic only, whereas the military version can fire full auto. If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let me know.

But yes, it should still have a robust safety. Guns don't usually go off accidentally.

Sort of, the original gun was the AR-15 that was adopted at the M-16. Few Ar-15 rifles available are full auto and no new ones have been made legally since 1986. Of course how good the safety and drop safety is entirely depends on the manufacturer of this specific one, as they are not all made by colt.
 
Sort of, the original gun was the AR-15 that was adopted at the M-16. Few Ar-15 rifles available are full auto and no new ones have been made legally since 1986. Of course how good the safety and drop safety is entirely depends on the manufacturer of this specific one, as they are not all made by colt.

Sure, there are a variety of manufacturers spanning the quality spectrum. Even still, it on exceedingly unlikely that a mechanical failure caused the rifle to fire.

The simplest and by far the most likely explanation is that the rifle worked as designed and the accused fired the rifle intentionally.
 
When the perpetrator is putting someone else's life in danger.

The thing is that saving someone elses life is covered in general self defense and you don't need to be a cop. If you see someone shooting up a school you can shoot them legally even if you are not personally in danger. There are some practical issues and risks but self defense law generally allows you to come to the defense of someone else.
 
Police have a mandate to protect life and property. It's in their job description.


No, actually, they don't have any such mandate under US law; according to the US Supreme Court. The only mandate police have is to enforce laws and apprehend those suspected of crimes. Protecting life and property is not in their job description.

Civilian property owners do not have this mandate. They have a mandate to protect their own lives. Police should therefore have a little more leeway around their decision to use lethal force.


Again, this is where US and Oz law and culture differ. In the US, protection of life and property is primarily the onus of the individual, not law enforcement.

The only privileges that LEOs maintain that civilians do not are the ability to carry firearms in places that are normally restricted for civilians, and a much wider latitude in use of force to apprehend, detain, and search individuals suspected of criminal activities.

In the US civilians have a limited ability to detain individual suspects, known as "citizen's arrest", but this is a very problematic gray area even under best-case circumstances. In the US, citizens are also permitted to use the same degree of lethal force to defend others that they would be allowed in self-defense.

"Castle Doctrine" is predicated on the principle that any unauthorized intruder found within a dwelling not their own can be presumed to present a "clear and present danger" to anyone residing therein, and therefore the owner/resident is justified in responding with lethal force, and has no onus to ascertain the degree of threat posed by the intruder, or to retreat from any perceived threat within a domicile they lawfully inhabit.

Certain implementations of the "Castle Doctrine" provide even more leeway in the use of lethal force, but that varies greatly be jurisdiction, and some go much to far in what they allow, IMO. The definition of "clear and present danger" also varies considerably. Some also expand "Castle Doctrine" to include protection of property, or certain additional types of property outside of a domicile, such as automobiles.

I, for one, am perfectly fine with reining in police use of lethal force to roughly the same degree as is permitted for civilians under similar circumstances.

Furthermore, police are trained. They are trained in law and law enforcement - in theory, at least. Civilians are not. A gun in the hands of a cop is not the same as a gun in the hands of a citizen.


Given the actions of police in the US, it's clear that their training does not make them significantly better at protecting life and property than the average untrained citizen. Particularly when that training actually emphasizes and encourages escalation of force. And as the number of bystander casualties has demonstrated, even when they are justified in using lethal force, their degree of skill in doing so does not always rise significantly above that of untrained civilians.
 
All AR platform rifles have an external thumb safety and an internal disconnector.

The trigger pull on garden variety AR's are the GI "two-stage" trigger pull type that allegedly precludes the rifle from being fired inadvertently - the trigger take up in the first stage is quite long before the shooter gets to the second stage where the hammer is released by the sear.
 
I believe (and again, far from an expert) that the AR-15 is a civilian version of a military weapon. I believe the main difference is that the AR-15 is semiautomatic only, whereas the military version can fire full auto. If I'm wrong about this, I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let me know.

But yes, it should still have a robust safety. Guns don't usually go off accidentally.
AR-15 means two different things.

The Armalite AR-15 was a select fire Assault Rifle* which means it could fire in semi auto and full auto modes and was designed for killing people rather than game or targets in shooting ranges. It was adopted into the US military as the M16.

Nowadays there are a whole load of rifles that are styled on the M16 but aimed at civilians. These are semi-auto only and properly called (I think) AR-15 style rifle. However, everybody just calls them AR-15.






*not really. For some reason, some gun lovers get triggered when you claim the AR stands for "assault rifle" and that's always fun to watch - from beyond effective range. I think the "A" actually stands for "Armalite".
 
AR-15 means two different things.

The Armalite AR-15 was a select fire Assault Rifle* which means it could fire in semi auto and full auto modes and was designed for killing people rather than game or targets in shooting ranges. It was adopted into the US military as the M16.

Nowadays there are a whole load of rifles that are styled on the M16 but aimed at civilians. These are semi-auto only and properly called (I think) AR-15 style rifle. However, everybody just calls them AR-15.






*not really. For some reason, some gun lovers get triggered when you claim the AR stands for "assault rifle" and that's always fun to watch - from beyond effective range. I think the "A" actually stands for "Armalite".

Actually the AR stands for armalite, they kept if even for their AR-17 shotgun after all. But most of these AR's are not just styled after the M16 but mechanically the same except not select fire. It isn't like they use different internals or anything.
 
Actually the AR stands for armalite, they kept if even for their AR-17 shotgun after all. But most of these AR's are not just styled after the M16 but mechanically the same except not select fire. It isn't like they use different internals or anything.


The civilian version does use different internals. Specifically, part of the (IIRC lower) receiver is significantly different, in order to prevent it from being easily modified for fully-automatic operation.
 
Actually the AR stands for armalite, they kept if even for their AR-17 shotgun after all. But most of these AR's are not just styled after the M16 but mechanically the same except not select fire. It isn't like they use different internals or anything.

Aside from the pins. springs and the bolt itself, all the internals in the 15 are different - the trigger, hammer, disconnector, sear and bolt carrier aren't just different, the feds generally consider individuals in possession of an AR with those parts installed, even absent the auto sear, to be in "constructive possession" of a machinegun.

https://www.atf.gov/file/58146/download

Any weapon which shoots automatically, more than 1 shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger, is a machine gun as defined in 26 U.S.C. 5845(b), the National Firearms Act (NFA). In addition, the definition of machine gun also includes any combination of parts from which a
machine gun may be assembled, if such parts are in possession or under the control of a person. An AR15 type assault rifle which fires more than one shot by a single function o the trigger is a machine gun under the NFA. Any machine gun is subject to the NFA and the possession of an unregistered machinegun could the possessor to criminal prosecution.

Additionally, these rifles could pose a safety hazard in that they may fire automatically without the user being aware that the weapon will fire more than 1 shot with a single pull of the trigger.

In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16, hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration. Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembled with M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1 type parts which are available commercially. The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration.
 
Aside from the pins. springs and the bolt itself, all the internals in the 15 are different - the trigger, hammer, disconnector, sear and bolt carrier aren't just different, the feds generally consider individuals in possession of an AR with those parts installed, even absent the auto sear, to be in "constructive possession" of a machinegun.

I was meaning between various semi auto AR-15 manufacturers not the semi auto AR-15 and its full auto brethren.
 
So you would support a cop shooting someone for stealing a car but not a civilian? When should the police use lethal force to protect private property?
Fortunately, I do not get to make that call. People with a lot more education, training and experience than an opinionated jerk on the internet like me get to make that call.
 
Sure, there are circumstances where police would have more latitude than a regular citizen. Much more significant is the total lack of general accountability that exists for police in general, even in the most severe cases of poor judgement and behavior.

Well, for example, when a cop shoots an unarmed man crawling on his knees, crying and begging for his life, it results in an acquittal. Ordinary citizens should not expect such positive results in a similar circumstance.
In an interesting reversal of culpability, an armed citizen who uses deadly force appropriately should probably be more concerned about having to defend themselves in court, at great expense, than a cop who uses deadly force inappropriately.

"Used force consistent with my training" is the new "just following orders". Since ordinary citizens are not trained LE officers, that catch-all excuse is not available.



Can you give me the specific cite for when "when a cop shoots an unarmed man crawling on his knees, crying and begging for his life, it results in an acquittal" that happened in the US or Canada?
Sounds like the nonsense proven liars were peddling in the Brown shooting that was thoroughly discredited - but seeing that we are on a board that is all about critical thinking and logical use of evidence based arguments - I know you can't be referring to that.
 
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Can you give me the specific cite for when "when a cop shoots an unarmed man crawling on his knees, crying and begging for his life, it results in an acquittal" that happened in the US or Canada?
Sounds like the nonsense proven liars were peddling in the Brown shooting that was thoroughly discredited - but seeing that we are on a board that is all about critical thinking and logical use of evidence based arguments - I know you can't be referring to that.

This one:

Mesa Police shooting: Daniel Shaver seen crawling, begging in disturbing video

Unedited bodycam video, at the 4:00 minute mark the cop begins to give conflicting instructions to Shaver, leading Shaver to cry and beg before getting killed:

Body-Cam Video Of Daniel Shaver Shooting | Los Angeles Times


It went to trail and resulted in an acquittal.
 

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