Logical? Deism.

[Franko]

Logical Deism

Logical Deism is based on 3 tenets. If you believe these things are the only logical conclusion for a rational mind, and you call yourself a “logical deist” (and another LD recognizes you as such) then you are a logical deist. A logical deists can hold any other religious affiliations he desires so long as they are not in direct conflict with the 3 tenets of logical deism.

1) GOD – God Exist.
2) SOUL – All conscious entities have a unique Soul.
3) FATE/KARMA – You are ultimately responsible for all your actions and words (Same as “Divine justice” to a Christian)


GOD = A Superior entity capable of generating a universe
SUPERIOR = greater than = more complex = having more mass/information/energy (better able to perceive Time).
UNIVERSE = a shared reality (common frame of reference) occupied by 2 or more entities.
ENTITY = A living creature = a consciousness = a Graviton (an Individual) = a Soul
UNIQUE = Unlike all others

 

[Tricky]

So those other things like "gravitons have spin and charge" are not tenets of LD, but merely your understanding of physics?

 

[Franko]

Logical Deism can be a philosophy, or it can be a religion, it depends on how much you are into it.

I have no other religious affiliations, so for me Logical deism is a Religion. It explains all of what I understand about metaphysics (the origin and nature of reality), but that isn't necessarily True for ALL logical deists.

 

[CWL]

Logical Deism

Allrigtie. Let's see if we can spot any contradictions in your tenets, shall we?

1) GOD – God Exist.

Fine if you believe so, why not. I can see nothing contradictory about that belief as such.

2) SOUL – All conscious entities have a unique Soul.

If this is your belief you are welcome to it. Again, nothing contradictory as such.

3) FATE/KARMA – You are ultimately responsible for all your actions and words (Same as “Divine justice” to a Christian)

Ah! Here is the little snag. If you believe there is "justice" in punishing I take it you also believe that each SOUL is free to choose between "moral" or "immoral" words or actions?

No?

Then your third tenet is rather contradictory.

It would appear that you are the one who needs "free will" in order to puzzle your cosmology together, not me or the other posters you choose to call "A-Theists".

Perhaps you need to revise your third tenet? A humble proposal:

3) FATE/KARMA – You are not ultimately responsible for all your actions and words as you cannot feely choose to speak or act. You are however predestined to be blessed or damned. Sorry about that but it's just the way it is.

You want to believe that? Sure, go ahead. At least it's not contradictory any more.

 

[Franko]

Aren’t you a LAWYER CWL???

Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of Atoms.
YOU obey TLOP.

Just who’s being the hypocrite A-Theist PUNISHER?

 

[thaiboxerken]

3) FATE/KARMA – You are ultimately responsible for all your actions and words (Same as “Divine justice” to a Christian)

How does this fit in with the "no free will" tenet? Is one responsible for actions and words that they didn't do willingly?


I don't believe in free will and I don't believe in "ultimate rewards/punishment" either.

 

[CWL]

Aren’t you a LAWYER CWL???

Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of Atoms.
YOU obey TLOP.

Just who’s being the hypocrite A-Theist PUNISHER?

Dear Franko,

That was a rather cryptical post. Not quite sure what you mean...

But yes, I am a lawyer. Although I do not practice criminal law, it still is rather logical for me that punishment is warranted when someone breaks the law - unless the person in question may be deemed legally insane. In such case he will go unpunished.

Why? Because he was not responsible for his actions.

Think about that for a while Franko.

Perhaps one can be deemed legally insane when a verdict is given according to the "laws" of physics?

Perhaps certified A-Theist mental cases such as myself, Tricky, Joshua, Whitefork, Upchurch, MCR_Hans (and just about any other poster on the board who does not agree with you 100 %) can yet escape the Abyss?

 

[Franko]

That was a rather cryptical post. Not quite sure what you mean...

But yes, I am a lawyer. Although I do not practice criminal law, it still is rather logical for me that punishment is warranted when someone breaks the law - unless the person in question may be deemed legally insane. In such case he will go unpunished.

Okay so you have this guy … he has committed some crime … and he is deemed “sane”. But why is this individual a criminal in the first place? Well, it turns out that he was raised in a very poor household, his family lived in the worst part of town. His mother was an alcoholic, and his father use to physically abuse him before he abandoned the family completely. The person in question never really fit in, he dropped out of school at an early age, and since he was surrounded by the criminal element in society, crime is all that he ever knew as a profession.

In short, It was his Destiny that he became a criminal.

… and now you want to punish him for it.

Why? It’s not really his fault that he is a criminal. He didn’t get to pick his parents, he didn’t get to pick when or where he was born.

Why? Because he was not responsible for his actions.

Yeah, but you’ll still punish him without a second thought, and sadly it is rather obvious that you have NEVER really even considered these issues before.

Think about that for a while CWL.

 

[Franko]

Thaifoodbunny:
How does this fit in with the "no free will" tenet? Is one responsible for actions and words that they didn't do willingly?

You didn’t willingly get to select who your parents are either.

Does that mean they aren’t your parents?

You didn’t get to pick where or when you were born, does that make you the Emperor Augustus just because you want to be?

 

[Checkmite]

Perhaps certified A-Theist mental cases such as myself, Tricky, Joshua, Whitefork, Upchurch, MCR_Hans (and just about any other poster on the board who does not agree with you 100 %) can yet escape the Abyss?

[counts backwards from ten...]

It's a good thing you defined an "A-Theist" as "someone who does not agree with Franko 100%", else you would be feeling my wrath.

 

[Checkmite]

You didn’t willingly get to select who your parents are either.

Does that mean they aren’t your parents?

That's not a proper analogy.

Here's a better one: since you didn't willingly select your parents, can you be held responsible for their giving birth to you?

 

[CWL]

Okay so you have this guy … he has committed some crime … and he is deemed “sane”. But why is this individual a criminal in the first place? Well, it turns out that he was raised in a very poor household, his family lived in the worst part of town. His mother was an alcoholic, and his father use to physically abuse him before he abandoned the family completely. The person in question never really fit in, he dropped out of school at an early age, and since he was surrounded by the criminal element in society, crime is all that he ever knew as a profession.

In short, It was his Destiny that he became a criminal.

… and now you want to punish him for it.

Why? It’s not really his fault that he is a criminal. He didn’t get to pick his parents, he didn’t get to pick when or where he was born.

Not everyone who is raised under such conditions becomes a criminal. Your argument is flawed.

Yeah, but you’ll still punish him without a second thought, and sadly it is rather obvious that you have NEVER really even considered these issues before.

Think about that for a while CWL.

It is obvious that you have no grasp of the concept of "legally insane".

Trust me Franko, I have done some thinking when it comes to these issues. If it's any consolation, when I was twenty years old I thought I had it all figured out too. I was wrong. You will learn more as you grow older too, trust me. One painful lesson you might learn is that none of us has got it all figured out...

 

[CWL]

[counts backwards from ten...]

It's a good thing you defined an "A-Theist" as "someone who does not agree with Franko 100%", else you would be feeling my wrath.

As long as I don't have to feel your wraith...

 

[Franko]

CWLoser,

Not everyone who is raised under such conditions becomes a criminal. Your argument is flawed.

So you are claiming that some people become criminals magically and for no logical reasons?

Just who’s being naïve now A-Theist?

It is obvious that you have no grasp of the concept of "legally insane".

I understand “insanity” far better then you do A-Theist.

Trust me Franko, I have done some thinking when it comes to these issues.

Your actions and words say otherwise …

If it's any consolation, when I was twenty years old I thought I had it all figured out too. I was wrong. You will learn more as you grow older too, trust me. One painfull lesson is that none of us has got it all figured out...

save you patronizing tone for those pathetic enough to select you as their “Lawyer” …

 

[Checkmite]

I understand “insanity” far better then you do A-Theist.

 

[CWL]

CWLoser,

So you are claiming that some people become criminals magically and for no logical reasons?

Just who’s being naïve now A-Theist?

So, are you claiming that sane human beings cannot distinguish between a moral and an immoral act?

I understand “insanity” far better then you do A-Theist.

You have yet to prove this.

Your actions and words say otherwise …

You have yet to prove this too.

save you patronizing tone for those pathetic enough to select you as their “Lawyer” …

Ah, the hubris of youth. How invigorating. Whatever is virtuous within Logical Deism, humility is obviously not.

 

[Franko]

I guess I can add "the criminal mind" to the list of things that A-Theists are utterly clueless about ...

 

[CWL]

I guess I can add "the criminal mind" to the list of things that A-Theists are utterly clueless about ...

And you are not because...?

You have a PhD in criminology? Perhaps because of your extensive studies in psychiatry?

Better start insulting me now, before it becomes too obvious that you have painted yourself in a corner (again).

 

[Franko]

CWhineyLoser,

So, are you claiming that sane human beings cannot distinguish between a moral and an immoral act?

By who’s definition of “sane” – Yours or Mine? According to Tricky, A-Theists Dictionaries are not required to be logical, which is the same as saying that A-Theist terms aren’t logical. So by your definition of “sane” I’d say -- who knows? By my definition of sane, no sane person EVER (knowingly) commits an immoral act.

You have yet to prove this.

What’s your rush A-Theists, are you that eager to cease to exist?

You have yet to prove this too.

You are the LAWYER (bureaucrat of the penal system) claiming that Man does not need the threat of punishment to make him moral. You are the one who is clearly being hypocritical, and you are the one unable to explain the contradiction, so clearly you are acting in an obviously deceitful manner (just like ALL A-Theists).

Ah, the hubris of youth. How invigorating. Whatever is virtuous within Logical Deism, humility is obviously not.

You perception isn’t worth spit A-Theist.

 

[Checkmite]

Franko...is the only thing that makes you behave "morally" the fear that you'll be sent to the Abyss if you don't? Other peoples' feelings and rights are meaningless to you?