Logical? Deism.

[Guest]

So basically....... your belief in god is not logical.

Erm....I have not stated that I believe in God and I have not stated that I do not. Franko accuses me of being an atheist and you and Luci are convinced I am a theist. Whatever....

 

[Tricky]

The revised list of the tenets of Logical Deism.

• This universe is part of an omniverse.
• This universe was created by the Logical Goddess (LG), who also created the forces (electro-magnetism, weak nuclear and strong nuclear). She did not create gravity.
• The Logical Goddess controls everything in this universe.
• One soul = one graviton.
• Gravitons come from the omniverse, but not necessarily this universe.
• The Logical goddess is the "top graviton", meaning she is omnipotent.
• Gravitons are fermions, i.e. they have spin and charge.
• The gender of a graviton is determined by its spin.
• Gravitons are intrinsically Good or Evil.
• Good Gravitons will move forward in Time (to a higher energy state), Evil Gravitons will move backwards in Time (to a lower energy state).
• The lower, the worse things are, but not the same as the Christian "Hell".
• There is no free will. Not libertarian free will. Not compatiblist free will. None.
• There are consequences for the things you do.
• The things you do are the result of Maximum Perceived Benefit (MPB). This is not the same as free will.
• You will be punished if your MPB causes you to do the wrong things.
• The LG created The Laws Of Physics (TLOP), except for gravity.
• The LG is the most conscious and complex entity in the universe.
• TLOP are an expression of the LG. She controls them.
• The LG, using TLOP, creates the shape, or body of humans. The soul is the graviton.
• The LG, and by extension TLOP are smarter, more powerful and more complex than humans.
• Everything in the universe is deterministic, including Quantum Mechanics.
• True randomness does not exist.
• Matter does not physically exist, but is a manifestation of energy.
• If A has property P and B is made of A, then B has property P. (As shown by the syllogism, "Atoms obey the laws of physics. You are made of atoms. Therefore you obey the laws of physics.)
• If A controls B then A is more conscious than B. -- EXCEPTION If it appears that a less conscious object is controlling a more conscious object, it is actually the LG that is controlling them.
• Followers of LD are on an Omniworldview line.

Thanks to all who have contributed. Don't stop.

 

[Tricky]

Gosh, I almost forgot one of the most important ones.

The revised list of the tenets of Logical Deism.

• This universe is part of an omniverse.
• This universe was created by the Logical Goddess (LG), who also created the forces (electro-magnetism, weak nuclear and strong nuclear). She did not create gravity.
• The Logical Goddess controls everything in this universe.
• One soul = one graviton.
• Gravitons come from the omniverse, but not necessarily this universe.
• The Logical goddess is the "top graviton", meaning she is omnipotent.
• Gravitons are fermions, i.e. they have spin and charge.
• The gender of a graviton is determined by its spin.
• Gravitons are intrinsically Good or Evil.
• Good Gravitons will move forward in Time (to a higher energy state), Evil Gravitons will move backwards in Time (to a lower energy state).
• The lower, the worse things are, but not the same as the Christian "Hell".
• There is no free will. Not libertarian free will. Not compatiblist free will. None.
• There are consequences for the things you do.
• The things you do are the result of Maximum Perceived Benefit (MPB). This is not the same as free will.
• You will be punished if your MPB causes you to do the wrong things.
• The LG created The Laws Of Physics (TLOP), except for gravity.
• The LG is the most conscious and complex entity in the universe.
• TLOP are an expression of the LG. She controls them.
• The LG, using TLOP, creates the shape, or body of humans. The soul is the graviton.
• The LG, and by extension TLOP are smarter, more powerful and more complex than humans.
• Everything in the universe is deterministic, including Quantum Mechanics.
• True randomness does not exist.
• Matter does not physically exist, but is a manifestation of energy.
• If A has property P and B is made of A, then B has property P. (As shown by the syllogism, "Atoms obey the laws of physics. You are made of atoms. Therefore you obey the laws of physics.")
• If A controls B then A is more conscious than B. -- EXCEPTION If it appears that a less conscious object is controlling a more conscious object, it is actually the LG that is controlling them.
• Followers of LD are on an Omni-Worldview Line (OWL).
• Consciousness creates matter.

Thanks to all who have contributed. Don't stop.

 

[whitefork]

WRT the last point:

The idea being I think that consciousness, being non-material, must be energy, and that matter can only exist because of energy.

Which leaves me wondering about the nature of the graviton and its imprisoned soul-stuff, but that's perhaps a matter (heh-heh) for another list.

 

[Upchurch]

The idea being I think that consciousness, being non-material, must be energy, and that matter can only exist because of energy.

Ooooh. I see. It's not that energy and mass are equivelent (+/- a scaling factor) as Einstein theorized, it's that energy exists first and it becomes matter. That, I could almost buy into, but how do we know that energy is conscious? Is all energy conscious? Am I effecting a consciousness when I convert electrical or chemical energy into mechanical energy? So many ethical questions begin to arise....

Upchurch

 

[Tricky]

The re-revised list of the tenets of Logical Deism.

• This universe is part of an omniverse.
• This universe was created by the Logical Goddess (LG), who also created the forces (electro-magnetism, weak nuclear and strong nuclear). She did not create gravity.
• The Logical Goddess controls everything in this universe.
• One soul = one graviton.
• Gravitons come from the omniverse, but not necessarily this universe.
• The Logical goddess is the "top graviton", meaning she is omnipotent.
• Gravitons are fermions, i.e. they have spin and charge.
• The gender of a graviton is determined by its spin.
• Gravitons are intrinsically Good or Evil.
• Good Gravitons will move forward in Time (to a higher energy state), Evil Gravitons will move backwards in Time (to a lower energy state).
• The lower, the worse things are, but not the same as the Christian "Hell".
• There is no free will. Not libertarian free will. Not compatiblist free will. None.
• There are consequences for the things you do.
• The things you do are the result of Maximum Perceived Benefit (MPB). This is not the same as free will.
• You will be punished if your MPB causes you to do the wrong things.
• The LG created The Laws Of Physics (TLOP), except for gravity.
• The LG is the most conscious and complex entity in the universe.
• TLOP are an expression of the LG. She controls them.
• The LG, using TLOP, creates the shape, or body of humans. The soul is the graviton.
• The LG, and by extension TLOP are smarter, more powerful and more complex than humans.
• Everything in the universe is deterministic, including Quantum Mechanics.
• True randomness does not exist.
• Matter does not physically exist, but is a manifestation of energy.
• If A has property P and B is made of A, then B has property P. (As shown by the syllogism, "Atoms obey the laws of physics. You are made of atoms. Therefore you obey the laws of physics.")
• If A controls B then A is more conscious than B. -- EXCEPTION If it appears that a less conscious object is controlling a more conscious object, it is actually the LG that is controlling them.
• Followers of LD are on an Omni-Worldview Line (OWL).
• Consciousness creates matter.
• Gravity travels faster than the speed of light.

 

[Soubrette]

Tricky

Frank also mentions somthing about Potato Stew.....sorry I mean the Prime Sollipsist, I think it's called.

And the Abyss - the Abyss awaits those who deny that consciousness makes matter. For those gravitons who are somewhat speedier - there is Eternity

Sou

 

[Upchurch]

• The lower, the worse things are, but not the same as the Christian "Hell".

Tricky,

Could you, or someone, clarify this one a bit? The lower on what? The Hierarchy Of Conscioussness (HOC)? Time? The Omniverse?

Also, and I appriciate the work you're doing here, but do you think you could highlight the points that have been added or edited, if it's not too much trouble? It's hard to go back through and compare to the last one each time.

Thanks,

Upchurch

edited for really bad pun

Tricky, do you think you could add HOC?

Okay, I'm going to go crawl into a hole now.

 

[Tricky]

The re-revised list of the tenets of Logical Deism.

Blue items have been edited with input from Franko.

Red items have been edited or suggested by others.

• This universe is part of an omniverse.
• This universe was created by the Logical Goddess (LG), who also created the forces (electro-magnetism, weak nuclear and strong nuclear). She did not create gravity.
• The Logical Goddess controls everything in this universe.
• One soul = one graviton.
• Gravitons come from the omniverse, but not necessarily this universe.
• The Logical goddess is the "top graviton", meaning she is omnipotent.
• Gravitons are fermions, i.e. they have spin and charge.
• The gender of a graviton is determined by its spin.
• Gravitons are intrinsically Good or Evil.
• Good Gravitons will move forward in Time (to a higher energy state), Evil Gravitons will move backwards in Time (to a lower energy state).
• The lower, the worse things are, but not the same as the Christian "Hell".
• Atheist gravitons will go to the abyss for eternity.
• There is no free will. Not libertarian free will. Not compatiblist free will. None.
• There are consequences for the things you do.
• The things you do are the result of Maximum Perceived Benefit (MPB). This is not the same as free will.
• You will be punished if your MPB causes you to do the wrong things.
• The LG created The Laws Of Physics (TLOP), except for gravity.
• The LG is the most conscious and complex entity in the universe.
• TLOP are an expression of the LG. She controls them.
• The LG, using TLOP, creates the shape, or body of humans. The soul is the graviton.
• The LG, and by extension TLOP are smarter, more powerful and more complex than humans.
• Everything in the universe is deterministic, including Quantum Mechanics.
• True randomness does not exist.
• Matter does not physically exist, but is a manifestation of energy.
• If A has property P and B is made of A, then B has property P. (As shown by the syllogism, "Atoms obey the laws of physics. You are made of atoms. Therefore you obey the laws of physics.")
• If A controls B then A is more conscious than B. -- EXCEPTION If it appears that a less conscious object is controlling a more conscious object, it is actually the LG that is controlling them.
  [*] Followers of LD are on an Omni-Worldview Line (OWL).
• Consciousness creates matter.
• Gravity travels faster than the speed of light.
  [*] The first entity is the Progenitor Solipsist (PS) – our original primordial ancestor – what the Christians call “God the Father/God the Creator”

(Thanks for the brain jog, Sou )

Colors added for Upchurch, even though he deserves to go to the abyss for that abysmal pun.
(Sorry, I can't add HOC, because I can't figure out what the LDs are trying to say).

 

[thaiboxerken]

LOL. LD really is absurd.. what strange beliefs they have. They should drop the "logical" from their name and just call themselves diests.

 

[Soubrette]

My pleasure Tricky

Although I'm not sure if your list is from Frank's point of view or is supposed to be an objective list of Logical Deism

I will now go on to explain what appears to be exactly the same statement (after all in some ways Frank is LD)?

Frank believes that all atheists believe matter makes consciousness - that is not necessarily true From Frank's pov all atheist will hit the pit. However I happen to hear rumours that there is the odd atheist who doesn't necessarily believe that matter stuff

To clarify I mean odd as in one or two - not odd as in strange or weird or anything

Sou

 

[Tricky]

LOL. LD really is absurd.. what strange beliefs they have. They should drop the "logical" from their name and just call themselves diests.

"Diests"? Was that an intentionally humorous misspelling?

But actually LD does not follow the tenets of deism (as it is commonly defined) either. Deism does not propose the existance of a "personal god", whereas LD obviously does. However, I am only trying to summarize the beliefs of LD, not comment on them (at least not right now).

 

[whitefork]

My fault for pointing out the "i before e" rule in "thief". "Deism" is a exception, of course, the syllabication being De-ism.

Well, English orthography isn't exactly logical, either. (exception #2).

 

[Q-Source]

Tricky,

Remember to include this in your list: "Essencially LD is a Unified Theory of Physics".

Please, if you don´t mind.

 

[Tricky]

Although I'm not sure if your list is from Frank's point of view or is supposed to be an objective list of Logical Deism

It is supposed to be from the LD's point of view (I include Wraith as an LD as well). I am trying very hard not to misquote either of them.

Frank believes that all atheists believe matter makes consciousness - that is not necessarily true From Frank's pov all atheists will hit the pit.

I have thought about making a list of "A-Theist" beliefs too, but that will have to wait. Of course, if anyone else would like to do this...

However I happen to hear rumours that there is the odd atheist who doesn't necessarily believe that matter stuff

Frank, in his more tender moments, has even allowed that some of those he calls A-Theists are actually agnostics. He does not always rant.

To clarify I mean odd as in one or two - not odd as in strange or weird or anything

I don't believe anyone would question either usage of "odd".

 

[Tricky]

The re-re-revised list of the tenets of Logical Deism.

• This universe is part of an omniverse.
• This universe was created by the Logical Goddess (LG), who also created the forces (electro-magnetism, weak nuclear and strong nuclear). She did not create gravity.
• The Logical Goddess controls everything in this universe.
• One soul = one graviton.
• Gravitons come from the omniverse, but not necessarily this universe.
• The Logical goddess is the "top graviton", meaning she is omnipotent.
• Gravitons are fermions, i.e. they have spin and charge.
• The gender of a graviton is determined by its spin.
• Gravitons are intrinsically Good or Evil.
• Good Gravitons will move forward in Time (to a higher energy state), Evil Gravitons will move backwards in Time (to a lower energy state).
  [* ] The lower, the worse things are, but not the same as the Christian "Hell".
• Atheist gravitons will go to the abyss for eternity.
• There is no free will. Not libertarian free will. Not compatiblist free will. None.
• There are consequences for the things you do.
• The things you do are the result of Maximum Perceived Benefit (MPB). This is not the same as free will.
• You will be punished if your MPB causes you to do the wrong things.
• The LG created The Laws Of Physics (TLOP), except for gravity.
• The LG is the most conscious and complex entity in the universe.
• TLOP are an expression of the LG. She controls them.
• The LG, using TLOP, creates the shape, or body of humans. The soul is the graviton.
• The LG, and by extension TLOP are smarter, more powerful and more complex than humans.
• Everything in the universe is deterministic, including Quantum Mechanics.
• True randomness does not exist.
• Matter does not physically exist, but is a manifestation of energy.
• If A has property P and B is made of A, then B has property P. (As shown by the syllogism, "Atoms obey the laws of physics. You are made of atoms. Therefore you obey the laws of physics.")
• If A controls B then A is more conscious than B. -- EXCEPTION If it appears that a less conscious object is controlling a more conscious object, it is actually the LG that is controlling them.
• Followers of LD are on an Omni-Worldview Line (OWL).
• Consciousness creates matter.
• Gravity travels faster than the speed of light.
• The first entity is the Progenitor Solipsist (PS) – our original primordial ancestor – what the Christians call “God the Father/God the Creator”
• Essentially, LD is a Unified Theory of Physics.

A nod to Q-Source

 

[Upchurch]

Also, please remember that an LD's definition of atheist is different than the more common definition, as is the case with many words. Note:

Originally posted by Franko

Upchurch when the dictionary definition of a word doesn’t make logical sense (when it is logically contradictory) I state that it is such. YOU however, seem to believe that Webster’s Dictionary is somehow divinely inspired and inerrant?

Originally posted by Upchurch

Fine (although you should perhaps state you're definitions a little more clearly rather than just assuming everyone knows what you mean).

Originally posted by Franko

I try an do exactly that. But if I don’t state a definition specifically you can assume I am using the standard Dictionary one.

Should we have a second list, perhaps of alternative definitions?

Upchurch

 

[Tricky]

Should we have a second list, perhaps of alternative definitions?

You mean, like, a Lexicon?

 

[Upchurch]

You mean, like, a Lexicon?

Okay, yikes. I guess that is a lengthy thing to compile, like a LD to English dictionary. It would probably be easier to have the LD just define every word he uses, explicitly, and remember to take nothing for granted.

Not to mention all the books on LD's alternative science that would have to be published: Physics, Cosmology, Biology, Chemistry, etc.

Oy. to fully describe LD would require a library just on the differences between LD and the rest of the world's view point. And how many LD's are there do we think? Franko, "wraith", and who? Maybe Hammek(sp? his name escapes me)?

Upchurch

 

[Franko]

Thaifoodkenny:
Tell me one scientific fact that has no evidence associated with it.

The logic behind not believing in "god" is that there is no evidence of god.

I guess I am the only person in this forum who perceives the contradiction in this A-Theists words?