Logical? Deism.

[Tricky]

I guess I am the only person in this forum who perceives the contradiction in this A-Theists words?

No. I agree it is an incorrect statement. Logic is a tool for evaluating evidence. Thus, you cannot "logically" evaluate "no evidence".

Glad you're back, Franko. Do you agree with the list of LD tenets I have posted?

 

[thaiboxerken]

No. I agree it is an incorrect statement. Logic is a tool for evaluating evidence. Thus, you cannot "logically" evaluate "no evidence".

There is no logic in the belief in god, not that it's bad logic or false logic. Because there is no evidence associated with god, and logic is a tool for evaluating evidence, there is no logic in the belief of god.

The logic of god not existing is that because there is nothing that we know of that exists without evidence, and god has no evidence associated with it, there must not be a god.

 

[whitefork]

Interesting argument. I formalize thusly:

For all X, if X exists, then there is evidence for X.
There is no evidence for god.
Therefore, god does not exist.

I think you need to put some scope on "exists", because some things might be said to exist without having evidence -
Does the past exist? OK, arguably not.

Let's say a cure for cancer exists (possible, right?). But there's no evidence for it. Yet. How do you handle a situation like that?

Just trying to tighten things up a bit.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Interesting argument. I formalize thusly:
I think you need to put some scope on "exists", because some things might be said to exist without having evidence -
Does the past exist? OK, arguably not.

Correct, the past and the future do not exist, they are merely has been or will be's.


Let's say a cure for cancer exists (possible, right?). But there's no evidence for it. Yet. How do you handle a situation like that?

Just trying to tighten things up a bit.

It is not considered to exist until evidence is found. Your appeal to the future is equivalent to an appeal to ignorance, both are unknowns.

 

[whitefork]

"Unknown" yes, but we may consider probabilities. Certain areas of investigation are believed with reason to be more likely to be fruitful than others, of course.

(But I'm not going to argue that the existence of a deity is a matter of probability.....)

Would you consider probability a form of evidence?

Or, for instance, this claim: "there are only four colors needed to draw a two dimensional map such that no two contiguous areas have the same color". Until a few years ago, the truth of that statement was unknown. Today, it is. How do you classify a claim that in principle may be true, but is currently undetermined?

 

[Franko]

Upchurch:

Ooooh. I see. It's not that energy and mass are equivelent (+/- a scaling factor) as Einstein theorized, it's that energy exists first and it becomes matter. That, I could almost buy into, but how do we know that energy is conscious?

You are getting closer.

What do you suppose Energy is … fundamentally?

Do you suppose it has anything to do with Time?

How about your consciousness? In what way would your consciousness exist without Time? Can you be conscious without experiencing Time?

Is all energy conscious?

???

Possibly … eventually?

Am I effecting a consciousness when I convert electrical or chemical energy into mechanical energy? So many ethical questions begin to arise....

In the end you can only be concerned for (responsible for) what you are capable of perceiving.

 

[Franko]

Brette,

Frank also mentions something about Potato Stew.....sorry I mean the Prime Sollipsist, I think it's called.

Progenitor Solipsist if you want to be technical.

… but I believe there may also be mention of Potato Stew as well …

And the Abyss - the Abyss awaits those who deny that consciousness makes matter. For those gravitons who are somewhat speedier - there is Eternity

Velocity has little to do with getting into the Metaverse. An Anti-Graviton can travel with the same velocity that a Posi-Graviton can. Velocity has more to do with your position within the Divine Hierarchy.

This universe is an Energy State. The Universe below it (“the Abyss”) exist in a lower (simpler) Energy state, and the Universe above it (“the Metaverse”) exist in a higher (more complex) Energy state. Whether you reach the Metaverse or not really depends on your Charge, not your Velocity.

If you are a good person, a beneficial person (an optimist) and other individuals generally agree with you, and like having you around, then other entities will find it beneficial to have you around (they will like having you around).

However if you are a bad person, a harmful, non-beneficial person ( a pessimist) and other individuals generally don’t agree with you or don’t like having you around, then other entities will find it NON-Beneficial (i.e. harmful) to have you around (they won’t want you around).

 

[Franko]

Thaifoodkenny:

LOL. LD really is absurd.. what strange beliefs they have. They should drop the "logical" from their name and just call themselves diests.

Well if dropped the logic then I guess we wouldn't be able to explain our beliefs JUST LIKE YOU KENNY! so if we dropped the "Logical" part we would just be A-Theists, and we could just make up whatever beliefs we wanted.

But instead we rely on Logic.

 

[Franko]

Brette,

Frank believes that all atheists believe matter makes consciousness - that is not necessarily true

I know you have claimed this (and so have other A-Theists), but I have YET to be presented with ANY evidence that this is the case.

From Frank's pov all atheist will hit the pit.

Correction … anyone who is an A-Theist from the POV of the Goddess will be cut loose (when they die), and they will fall back to the Abyss all on their own accord.

However I happen to hear rumours that there is the odd atheist who doesn't necessarily believe that matter stuff …

Yeah, but then again I have heard there is the odd "Christian" who doesn’t believe in Jesus …

 

[thaiboxerken]

Or, for instance, this claim: "there are only four colors needed to draw a two dimensional map such that no two contiguous areas have the same color". Until a few years ago, the truth of that statement was unknown. Today, it is. How do you classify a claim that in principle may be true, but is currently undetermined?

This has nothing to do with the question of god, maps and colors are not absurd claims.. this god is. Here are a few reasons why "god" is absurd.

1. We can't even find a definition that is accepted by most theists as what their god is.

2. There is no evidence.

3. They claim their god has done things to the world and still does.. there is no evidence of this claim.

You are still appealing to unknowns.

 

[Tricky]

Progenitor Solipsist if you want to be technical.

I had already found the source and corrected it before I put in the list.

Velocity has little to do with getting into the Metaverse. An Anti-Graviton can travel with the same velocity that a Posi-Graviton can. Velocity has more to do with your position within the Divine Hierarchy.

These are new terms to me. Are Posi and Anti gravitons the same as Good souls and Evil souls, or are they male and female?

And BTW. Is my list still correct? I have made corrections from your last input, to the best of my ability. I am not trying to twist your words.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Well if dropped the logic then I guess we wouldn't be able to explain our beliefs JUST LIKE YOU KENNY! so if we dropped the "Logical" part we would just be A-Theists, and we could just make up whatever beliefs we wanted.

But instead we rely on Logic.

No, you dn't use logic, that's why I think you should take the word logic out of the name of your religion. I didn't contend that you stop using logic, I asserted that you never did use logic in your beliefs.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Yeah, but then again I have heard there is the odd "Christian" who doesn’t believe in Jesus …

There are many atheists that haven't heard of this matter stuff.. newborn babies. Yes, newborn babies haven't heard of god, therefore, by default, they are atheist. As and atheist is simply a person that doesn't believe in god. One cannot believe in something they haven't heard of. When will you get it through your thick skull that atheism isn't a religion or philosophy, it's simply the lack of belief in a god or gods.

 

[Franko]

Thaifoodkenny:

1. We can't even find a definition that is accepted by most theists as what their god is.

2. There is no evidence.

3. They claim their god has done things to the world and still does.. there is no evidence of this claim.

You are still appealing to unknowns.

Replace the term "god" with "Intelligent extraterrestrials" and your comments are still just as TRUE.

So why are you here in this forum when you should be out calling for the Abolition of Carl Sagan’s SETI institute???

After all:

1. Most people can’t even agree on what little green men from outer space really look like.

2. There is no evidence for “little green men” from outer space.

3. They claim that “little green men” could be transmitting signals to us this very instant, and that perhaps they even visit us in “flying saucers”. There is no evidence for these claims.

 

[Pahansiri]

Brette,




Correction … anyone who is an A-Theist from the POV of the Goddess will be cut loose (when they die), and they will fall back to the Abyss all on their own accord.

Hello again Franko.

I have pointed out the many contradictions in your beliefs and you have avoided answering, but I understand why and as you know I wish you well.

Above again we find a huge contradiction in your belief system.

You believe there is no form of free will so your above statement is self contradicting and illogical.

1) You clearly believe people who do not believe as you do choose so and so, that is a form of free will and self-contradicting and illogical as to what you say you believe.
2) If your goddess becomes angry at beings for they believe, “she” is of course 1- not all knowing or would know which before the birth of a being what they would do or believe. 2- Is truly a lesser and silly being who would be consumed with ego and hatred/ anger and such would be far from perfection. 3- Of course again you said these beings , people who do not believe as you do, do so in your words “all on their own accord” clearly indicating while you say there is no form of free will there is a form of free will.
3) Remember you state “she” or TLOP fully control yet then say that is not the case, again I must ask with respect do you really know what you believe?

Again I hope you can break free from your anger and find peace.

 

[Franko]

Pahansiri:

You believe there is no form of free will so your above statement is self contradicting and illogical.

1) You clearly believe people who do not believe as you do choose so and so, that is a form of free will and self-contradicting and illogical as to what you say you believe.

Pahansiri, My beliefs are intrinsic to who I am just as yours are intrinsic to you. No “free will” is required. I didn’t ask for these beliefs, they just evolved naturally of their own accord – just like me.

2) If your goddess becomes angry at beings for they believe, “she” is of course 1- not all knowing or would know which before the birth of a being what they would do or believe. 2- Is truly a lesser and silly being who would be consumed with ego and hatred/ anger and such would be far from perfection. 3- Of course again you said these beings , people who do not believe as you do, do so in your words “all on their own accord” clearly indicating while you say there is no form of free will there is a form of free will.

I don’t believe that the LG gets angry. At least not in the way you use the term.

Listen my friend if you break into my house in order to rob me and rape my wife, I am under no obligation to be kind to you. My only obligation is to stop you by any means necessary.

You don’t have “free will” to stop yourself from attempting to harm me, and I don’t have “free will” to prevent me from annihilating you in return.

3) Remember you state “she” or TLOP fully control yet then say that is not the case, again I must ask with respect do you really know what you believe?

Yes the LG controls you utterly, but She did not create you.

Again I hope you can break free from your anger and find peace.

I am rarely angry Pahansiri, and when I am … my anger brings peace.

 

[Franko]

These are new terms to me. Are Posi and Anti gravitons the same as Good souls and Evil souls, or are they male and female?

And BTW. Is my list still correct? I have made corrections from your last input, to the best of my ability. I am not trying to twist your words.

Yeah, I am sorry Tricky. I do plan on going over it, but I haven't had a long enough block of time yet today.

 

[Tricky]

Yeah, I am sorry Tricky. I do plan on going over it, but I haven't had a long enough block of time yet today.

I understand. You have a lot of people asking you things.

 

[Franko]

Thaifoodkenny:

There are many atheists that haven't heard of this matter stuff.. newborn babies. Yes, newborn babies haven't heard of god, therefore, by default, they are atheist.

I thought that an A-Theist was a nitwit who insisted that “NO GOD EXIST”, so if a newborn baby doesn’t even know what “God” is, then how can a newborn baby believe that “NO GOD EXIST”?

I’d say newborn babies were Agnostics (God = Unknown/Not enough information)

As and atheist is simply a person that doesn't believe in god. One cannot believe in something they haven't heard of.

Nor can you not believe in something you haven’t heard of.

If this is untrue then please name one thing that you don’t believe in which you have NEVER heard of?

When will you get it through your thick skull that atheism isn't a religion or philosophy, it's simply the lack of belief in a god or gods.

hehehe … and when will you THINK before you post A-Theist???

 

[Tricky]

If I may intervene here, let me say that Franko's definition of atheism means people who deny that a God is possible. If you admit possibility, then you are an agnostic, according to The Lexicon. I advise that you not waste time discussing the definition of atheist. According to The Lexicon, I am an agnostic, as are most of the people on this board.
Just make the translation in your head, and you will save yourself a lot of needless aggrivation.