LDS

[Slowvehicle]

They are reality. Living in ignorance of what is happening in law and the courts does not make the consequences go away.

And, of course, if I were, in fact, "living in ignorance", you could provide me with examples, citations, links to court cases...instead of your continual superstitious fearmongering.

This is why I keep asking about the anachronisms in the BoM, or the fraud that is the BoA...by dealing fast and loose with those facts, you appear to have become inured to distorting the truth. The more you lie, the easier itis for you.

I encourage you to enlighten my "ignorance".

 

[Olowkow]

Janadele is probably referring to this type of teaching, and Fox News' spin on it.

http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11b/CA_trans_elementary/index2.html

First of all, the children are being taught the truth. They are being taught facts about nature. Conservative religious types don't like the scientific truth about many things. The spin that the conservatives put on this is just a misinterpretation of what the guy in the video is saying.

I'm not sure how to convince theists of this ilk that they are wrong when Fox contributes to the confusion of the bubble zone that feeds into this stuff.

The teacher is emphatically not teaching them that "Young children ... can choose to be a boy or a girl -- or both". He is trying to explain that some people appear to be boys on the outside, when in fact they feel inside like they are a girl, and we should not bully them, rather accept and understand people for what they are. People have a right to be who they are.

The spin is just bigoted unpleasantness. I think it's a great idea to let kids in on these ideas at an early age.

ETA: I must say that the cognitive dissonance that this kind of input represents to the highly indoctrinated theist is very likely overwhelming. That is understandable, and there may be no way back for them. But I have to ask one question of Janadele, "Why would I try to convince anyone that this video is a desirable way to teach children if it is morally wrong?" From what you know about me, am I morally corrupt?

It is a chance for children with gender confusion to grow up leading a happy and productive life, rather than being relegated to the closet. Please give me a reason other than a religious one to deny a child this chance in life.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Yes I can do so,when time permits. But you must realise that this is not the topic of this thread.

Au contraire. Your sect claims that "eternal law" lets you dictate details of my life. The texts upon which you base this absurd claim of dominion are, in large part, demonstrably fraudulent and clearly a-historical. The contents of "eternal law" have been changed multiple times. You defend prejudice, bigotry, misogyny, and general smug hatefulness as the dictates of "eternal law", but the specifics keep changing as "eternal law" keeps getting re-interpreted.

Your sect can't even keep its superstitions straight--this is a perfect place to discuss why.

Please provide sources to even one kindergarten class where the students are actually "taught" they can "choose their gender", or admit that you are indulging i alarmist invention, exaggeration, and fearmongering.

I insist that you do this, as I will insist that you do the same for each one of your absurd claims.

 

[Slowvehicle]

The position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on same sex attraction and homosexual activity has already been stated.

The Radical Homosexual Agenda, is not the subject of this thread.

The fact that LDS apparently wantsto pretend that there is, in actual fact, a "Radical Homosexual Agenda", and that the LDA "position" on "same-sex attraction" and "homosexual activity" gives it a pass to indulge in bigotry, misogyny, discrimination, hate-mongering, fear-mongering, and outright lies is, in fact the very subject of this thread.

Why is your 'god', and your relationship to your 'god', so unstable that anything consensual that happens in my private life could be considered in any way to affect it, or you? I am not telling you that you (or anyone) must live as I do; why do you and your ilk (and your 'god') feel that your superstition give you leave to tell me how I must live?

 

[jsfisher]

Didn't we have a brief discussion of child molestation by the LDS leadership a bit back? Seems that Eternal Law may have a stronger do as I say component than do as I do.

But hey, that's why they are the leaders, no? Someone has to serve as a bad example; why not them?

 

[aggle-rithm]

Gender is an eternal characteristic.

Is skin color also an eternal characteristic?

 

[jsfisher]

... "Radical Homosexual Agenda" ...

I think you are referring to the agenda of the Radical Anti-Mormon Homosexually-Oriented Members Organization. Like most radical anti-Mormon groups with agendas, this one has secret satanic messages in its acronym.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Norm...The statements you refer to were made from memory. I do not memorise links. I also have other more important and more pleasant matters to attend to. This topic is unpleasant and upsetting, but I shall grit my teeth and look up the articles when I have time and when and if it suits me to do so... I am not obligated to dance to anyones tune on this forum.

If any of your screed were true, you could support it.

Funny that you say you are not "obligated to dance to anyone's tune", while stating categorically that you and your sect can not only tell me and my partner how, and when, and with whom, to dance (even whether we can dance at all); you pretend that your 'god' has given you permission (and responsibility) to enforce your superstitions upon us, and upon others, who do not accept the premise of your claims, much less your authority (to say nothing of the underlying superstitions).

You had time to post your screed; you are bound to make time to support it, or apologize and withdraw it.

 

[Slowvehicle]

... this thread has evolved from another thread in which off topic questions re LDS where being asked.

...and questions are still being asked. How does your claim to "eternal law" give you a pass on bigotry, racism, misogyny, and mendaciousness?

 

[Olowkow]

Janadele is probably referring to this type of teaching, and Fox News' spin on it.

http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/11b/CA_trans_elementary/index2.html

...

It might be a good idea to have a look at this video to understand at least what Janadele was talking about.

 

[Slowvehicle]

You spew your disgusting homophobia in post after post and then have the nerve to accuse someone else of "petty prejudices"?

The low life opinions of many Mormons over several generations on the subject of discrimination against minorities are of no worth or interest to any right minded person, except in so far as they have needed and still need to be fought in order to defend the rights of law abiding citizens.

Pixel:

Thank you for quoting the post, preserving Janadele's unedited words.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Gender is an eternal characteristic. There is no negotiation on the gender of our Spirit. The Spirit of a male is male. The Spirit of a female is female. On the rare occasion that the gender of the mortal body of a person is not known, then the gender of the Spiritual body is also not known while in mortality. To abide by Eternal Law celibacy is the only option, if for some genuine reason the gender of the Spirit is unknown.

I am glad that you have time to post this drivel...because it means you have time to support your screed.

Instead of pursuing your superstitions about "spirit", and your delusions about "eternal law", I challenge you to provide evidence of even one of the claims you made about the "Radical Homosexual Agenda".

 

[Janadele]

Is skin color also an eternal characteristic?

No

 

[Slowvehicle]

Nothing could be further from the truth.

...you will, of course, be providing support for this egregious claim, no?

 

[Akhenaten]

Is skin color also an eternal characteristic?

No

But gender is?

I can't wait to hear the explanation for this particular piece of drivel.

 

[Amazer]

No

Please explain why you believe that gender is an eternal characteristic but skin color isn't?

 

[joobz]

It might be a good idea to have a look at this video to understand at least what Janadele was talking about.

As I had expected, there was a basis for her views, but that this basis did not actually line up with what she stated.

Similarly, I am sure this report is her source for the cake shop incident.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/02/sweet-cakes-by-melissa-closed-_n_3856184.html

Interestingly,
1.) The store closed their own doors to move back into selling out of their house.
2.) The law they violated would also prevent them from refusal to sell to a mormon couple a wedding cake.
3.) They claimed it wasn't discrimination but rather their following god's laws and morality. Yet, they didn't have a problem with making cakes for divorce parties and wiccan celebrations.
http://www.thebraiser.com/anti-gay-...e-with-making-divorce-wiccan-stem-cell-cakes/

 

[RoboTimbo]

Is skin color also an eternal characteristic?

No

Are you thinking of Michael Jackson?

 

[halleyscomet]

You have tried this approach before. "If you beleived, then you would see why you should beleive" only works if you are willing to posutlate a coyote-'god' which gets its kicks making its creations jump through arbitrary hoops.

Such a god would explain a lot about the Universe, wouldn't it? Frankly, no other deity is compatible with observed reality. If God exists and is even marginally involved in the running of the cosmos, he has to be either incredibly lazy and incompetent, or a prankster deity. Cyote, Loki and Anansi would be closer to the essence of God than any other mythological figures.

We must choose between a slacker God or a Trickster. Sadly, the existence of Marijuana and psychedelic mushrooms cannot help us figure out which one we have, as they are compatible with both hypothesis.

 

[desertgal]

Do Mormons look down upon heterosexual married couples who practice other than traditional sex with each other? And I have often wondered if couples are told not to engage in sexual behavior as an expression of love or affection--only for making babies. No birth control.

I have a good friend whose wife believed this, and he didn't. Separate bedrooms for almost 20 years.

On a side note, I know of one example when the Mormon Church condoned a date rape, and forced the girl, through fear of ostracism, to marry the man who raped her.

Great church, hey?

Janadele has crossed the line from mindless preacher to inexcusably bigoted. One has to wonder why ANYONE, even in the name of some weird kind of self martyrdom, would come to a forum like this and willingly reveal their bigotry and prejudice?

I don't know why I'm asking. It IS Janadele, after all. Just wondering aloud. The irony is that we once lived in an almost exclusively Mormon community in S. Alberta. I can't recall even one member we met during those five years who made the LDS Church look as bad as Janadele has done in this one thread. That's horrible.