Landis Faces Loss of Tour de France Championship

[BPSCG]

Second drug test came back positive, not surprisingly.

I think they should run two separate TdF's. One where each day's top ten finishers are tested, as well as random other cyclists. Cheaters immediately disqualified.

The second, which could maybe be called The Juiced Tour de France (sponsored by Minute Maid, perhaps?) where competitors have no restrictions on what they put into their bodies, be it HGH, BGH (bovine growth hormone), steroids that turn you into King Kong's bigger brother, crack cocaine, heroin, whatever you're willing to put into your body.

Also, I think they should have a parallel xTreme TdF, where you start on leg one on day one, then move onto the succeeding legs as soon as you think you're ready. You want to finish leg one at 3:00 pm, hop a plane to leg two, finish it at 12:30 the next morning, take a five-hour nap, then move onto leg three, it's all up to you. Whoever crosses the finish line in Paris first wins.

Might have to have juiced and un-juiced versions of that one, too.

 

[davefoc]

There's a thread on the test results going on in science:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1821640#post1821640

As to the idea of allowing unlimited doping:
The only sport where that is done now is body building. I believe they have different events for doping and not doping competitors. The events for doping competitors are the mainstream though I believe.

Assuming that unlimited doping was allowed would the contests evolve into a system whereby the competitor willing to destroy his body the most was the winner?

 

[Rob Lister]

Assuming that unlimited doping was allowed would the contests evolve into a system whereby the competitor willing to destroy his body the most was the winner?

And I think Darwin is a lofty goal...for them.

 

[Iamme]

Landis really swears by his innocence. Wouldn't this be truly shameful if science actually works against a person that might be telling the truth? How could Landis, after seeing what Lance Armstrong went through in fighting the same accusations, think he would be the one to actually get away with it?...knowing full well there would be testing? I can't see it. Not unless there are websites out there that proclaim there are miracle steroids out there that can't be detected...guaranteed.

 

[Rob Lister]

Landis really swears by his innocence. Wouldn't this be truly shameful if science actually works against a person that might be telling the truth? How could Landis, after seeing what Lance Armstrong went through in fighting the same accusations, think he would be the one to actually get away with it?...knowing full well there would be testing? I can't see it. Not unless there are websites out there that proclaim there are miracle steroids out there that can't be detected...guaranteed.

My understanding of it is that it was steroids but synthetic testosorone. I don't follow the sport (I follow female lesbian golf more)

 

[a_unique_person]

LGF says.

#11 right wing zephyr 7/23/2006 10:23AM PDT
Did France surrender again, or what?
There'll be some major Parisian seething today for sure, including my wife's boss.
LOL.


#12 Trumanite 7/23/2006 10:25AM PDT
Don't know or particularly care anything about bicycling.
Just love seeing the French humiliated. Again. Especially by Americans.
Congrats to Landis.

then

#5 USA 7/28/2006 03:47PM PDT
Of course he has high testosterone. Always happens when you compare American and French men.
Heck, even French women outscore French men for testosterone.
hehehe!


#6 Cornholio 7/28/2006 03:49PM PDT
France is filled with girlymen with low testosterone levels. Frenchmen carry purses!


#7 leftout 7/28/2006 03:50PM PDT
The French soccer team was composed entirely of North Africans and Sub-Saharan Africans. I think that tells us something about Native French Testosterone levels.


#8 Duane 7/28/2006 03:53PM PDT
it's not that his testosterone level was abnormally high, but that the RATIO of testosterone to epitestosterone was too high. Landis's sample had the test to epitest ratio of 4:1. I wish the MSM would accurately report this.


#9 hiker 7/28/2006 03:53PM PDT
Good grief! A single hair growing out of a mole on an 80-year old woman's chin has more testosterone than the entire male population of France!


#10 Sol Roth 7/28/2006 03:54PM PDT
There is NO way that Landis used exogenous testosterone. Unless he was a cancer survivor and was prescribed it.
This smells like Hate-America-Incorporated ********.
Pre-emptive FOAD to all Collectivists ******** is in effect. When are you "guys" going to stop typing and pick up a weapon? Huh?
MaricONES.


#11 Ponch 7/28/2006 03:54PM PDT
A friend of mine wrote this interesting theory...too funny:
"Wow, how 'bout that Tour de France winner Landis supposedly testing postive for testosterone? I'm not ready to pronouce him guilty just yet. Remember that John Wayne movie I was telling you about, "Man from Utah"? Well, in the movie, John Wayne is a
kick-ass rodeo cowboy, and before a big rodeo event, he puts $4,000 on himself to win. A ring of con men try to get him to lose on purpose and offer him a cut of the winner's take if he agrees to the deal. But of course, The Duke refuses. Anyhow, Wayne has a dominating day at the rodeo, easily winning the steer wrestling and other events. With only the bucking-bronco event remaining, the con men resort to a drastic measure intended to knock off the Duke, a measure that has resulted in the mysterious deaths of some other cowboys (Wayne is actually working undercover for the sheriff investigating these deaths). What the con men have been doing is sticking a needle full of lethal rattlesnake venom into the saddle of would-be dominant rodeo contestants. But Wayne somehow gets wind of this tactic, and before settling into the saddle of the bucking bronco (which no one has ever ridden successfully), he feels around the saddle, finds the needle and pulls it out, then goes on to ride the previously unrideable bronc. So I'm thinking maybe the French are so sick and tired of
Americans winning the Tour every year that they did this to Landis, only they filled the needle with testosterone instead of rattlesnake venom. It wouldn't be all that hard to pull off -- especially with Landis busy racing every day and probably unable to watch "The Man from Utah." And even if he did watch it, it would have been in French."

Their usual high standard of analysis.

 

[Chaos]

Second drug test came back positive, not surprisingly.

I think they should run two separate TdF's. One where each day's top ten finishers are tested, as well as random other cyclists. Cheaters immediately disqualified.
*snip*

I have a better idea. Anyone who is *ever* caught doping under *any* circumstances is barred from all kinds of sports competitions FOR LIFE.

Also, every trainer, doctor or manager who is in on doping activity is considered compromised, and any athlete who *ever* associates with them under *any* circumstances is also barred for life.
And as soon as a trainer, doctor or manager is discovered to have participated in doping, any athlete who ever *had* associated with then is barred until ten years after they stopped being associate with them, just to be on the safe side.

Draconian? Yes. But they *chose* to break the rules, so I say let them pay for it.

 

[Rob Lister]

You certainly are punishing a lot of people.

How 'bout we just let those that want to dope, dope.

Who actually gives a crap?

I don't. That way, the only people punished are the ones doing it...and in direct proportion to the extent they are doing it.

Seems fair.

 

[Mycroft]

LGF says.

then

Their usual high standard of analysis.

This kind of seething is unbecoming.

 

[Rob Lister]

This kind of seething is unbecoming.

Obsession usually is.

 

[HeavyAaron]

I have a better idea. Anyone who is *ever* caught doping under *any* circumstances is barred from all kinds of sports competitions FOR LIFE.

I have an even better idea. Let's just stop paying attention to professional athletics for all time. They don't actually further the human condition, advance our knowledge, or really accomplish much of anything besides consume considerable resources. If we would just stop caring then they'd stop existing and we could do something more interesting as a species.

Aaron

 

[davefoc]

This kind of seething is unbecoming.

For what it is worth, Mycroft, I had mixed feelings about the appropriateness of AUP's post.

On one hand it seemed to be a big stretch to figure out how to get some of the middle east controversy into a completely unrelated thread.

On the other hand, it provided some insight into how people outside of JREF mgiht view the situation and I found that interesting. And in particular the group of people was the LGFers and I don't routinely read anything over there and it was interesting to see their thought process on a non-middle east topic.

So in net, the post interested me, but perhaps not quite as much as one that went more directly to this topic. But, right now I don't think there is much new information available about this topic. So given that and the fact that this is the thread on this topic in the politics section and not the thread in the science section, I say way to go AUP.

 

[davefoc]

My understanding of it is that it was steroids but synthetic testosorone. I don't follow the sport (I follow female lesbian golf more)

I think this is wrong. If you are interested you might read the thread in the science section. But a summary is that the testosterone in question is human testosterone, the question is did Landis's body make it? The test results that have been leaked seem to provide very good evidence that the testosterone did not originate in Landis' body.

 

[Walk The Line]

I have an even better idea. Let's just stop paying attention to professional athletics for all time. They don't actually further the human condition, advance our knowledge, or really accomplish much of anything besides consume considerable resources. If we would just stop caring then they'd stop existing and we could do something more interesting as a species.

Aaron

Assuming you're serious, why stop at sports?

I have an even better idea. Let's stop paying attention to fictional literature, movies, and other imaginative stories for all time. They don't actually further the human condition, advance our knowledge, or really accomplish much of anything besides consume considerable resources. If we just stop caring then they'd stop existing and we could do something more interestig as a species.

WTL

 

[HeavyAaron]

Assuming you're serious, why stop at sports?

I have an even better idea. Let's stop paying attention to fictional literature, movies, and other imaginative stories for all time. They don't actually further the human condition, advance our knowledge, or really accomplish much of anything besides consume considerable resources. If we just stop caring then they'd stop existing and we could do something more interestig as a species.

WTL

Who said I wanted to stop at sports?

Aaron

 

[Chaos]

You certainly are punishing a lot of people.

How 'bout we just let those that want to dope, dope.

If you want to play, play by the rules. If you don´t want to play by the rules, you have no business playing - EVER.

 

[BPSCG]

If you want to play, play by the rules. If you don´t want to play by the rules, you have no business playing - EVER.

Thta's why I've proposed the Juiced Tour de France, where the only rule regarding drugs is, there are no rules.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

What I have found curious, year after year, governing bodies indicate they are on the lookout for various substances. They'll test athletes again and again. And again. Yet these same athletes and their trainers will go ahead and take the risk anyway. It's just odd.

All right, son, you may not take a cookie from the jar. Do you understand? I count the cookies on the hour, every hour. I have video surveillance directed at the cookie jar. I'm also going to pump your stomach once or twice a day, as well as check your fingers for cookie residue. Come to think of it, I will weigh each cookie in case you think you can pick off a couple of crumbs or even just lick the outside of a cookie. Do you understand what I'm saying? Do not go near the cookie jar. Because if you do, you will be caught. And if you're caught, I take away the new Corvette I just gave you and sell it on eBay. Now, is there anything you don't understand about what I've said?

No.

And the moment dad's back is turned...

 

[El Greco]

This will be getting more and more ridiculous over time. As if they catch all the dopped ones now. What we have at present (at least in many sports - cycling not included) is a situation where the best dopped wins and the worst dopped loses. When gene doping hits the market they will have to drop all kinds of tests and legalize everything anyway. Better do it now and save some face.

 

[Seismosaurus]

What I have found curious, year after year, governing bodies indicate they are on the lookout for various substances. They'll test athletes again and again. And again. Yet these same athletes and their trainers will go ahead and take the risk anyway. It's just odd.

You're assuming that most people who do it get caught. What if 95% of professional athletes use drugs, but they use a regime which lets them get away with it despite testing, most of the time? Then you would only expect to get caught if you happen to be tested at the rare unlucky times. If so, we would expect to see athletes caught only occasionally - which is exactly what we do see.