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Kansas and the TV show Cosmos

icebear said:
Problem is, evolution REALLY IS a nasty business. There actually are flavors of junk science which are relatively harmless, but evolution is not one of those. Evolution was the philosophical corner stone of Nazism, Communism, all of the sundry eugenics programs and the out of control arms race which led to WW-I.

Evolution is a flavor of junk science with some 200,000,000 dead human bodies to its credit. In a perfect world, the teaching of evolution would have been banned the day WW-II ended.
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The Nazis also believed in the "theory" of gravity. Which means Newtonian physics led to Eugenics. I suggest you show your objections to this fascist concept by demonstrating its implausibility from somewhere, preferably high up, and let us know how it goes.
 
This urge for the maintenance of the unmixed breed, which is a phenomenon that prevails throughout the whole of the natural world, results not only in the sharply defined outward distinction between one species and another but also in the internal similarity of characteristic qualities which are peculiar to each breed or species. The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger. The only difference that can exist within the species must be in the various degrees of structural strength and active power, in the intelligence, efficiency, endurance, etc., with which the individual specimens are endowed.

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t was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. Whoever destroys His work wages war against God's Creation and God's Will.

- Mein Kampf
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No, evolution was not "the cornerstone of Nazism". Hitler's views on nature and evolution were somewhat incoherent and not highly informed, and twisted to suit his own ideological purposes.

As to your claim of evolution being responsible for 200,000,000 deaths, many of those deaths were due to famine that was the direct consequence of a Soviet rejection of Darwinian evolution and Mendelian inheritance in favor of Lysenko's more ideologically acceptable, but completely unscientific, views.
 
icebear said:
Humans never interbred with Neanderthals.

That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on... That's basically idiotic.
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Women sometimes have sex with donkeys for money. Some guys are really into beastiality. There's even a guy who has enjoyed sex with a dolphin. Why do you think the ancient world was any different?

Also, women have a tendency to raise whatever bundle of joy pops out of them, regardless of what it looks like. Look in the mirror for proof. Yeah, sometimes deformed or unusual babies were killed at birth in primitive societies, but I'm pretty sure this practice wasn't so widespread that there couldn't be one or two which may have survived.

Those rumors that I regularly had sex with the sheep I raised in high school aren't actually true, but the fact that some sicko thought it up and passed it around should tell you something. These things do happen... even with non-intelligent species. Why would it be any different for Neanderthals? I really doubt humans have changed that much. We really are a jaded species sometimes, particularly when it comes to sex.

Also, you've got your groups mixed up... the fact that Neanderthal genes have survived in OUR species suggests that the critters were raised in a human society, not a Neanderthal one.

icebear said:
In real life:
Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner left her alone for ten minutes.
The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be exceedingly obvious.
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Yeah... I don't suspect you know more than scientists about the psychology of the typical Neanderthal... and they know basically nothing that could be used to determine this horribly broad assumption. Keep in mind that this sort of thing only needed to happen once in an isolated situation for the genes to be spread throughout a large portion of our species. One small group (of HUMANS, not Neanderthals) accepting a half-neanderthal child whose descendants continued to have reproductive success is all that was required. Personally, I suspect it may have happened more than once.
 
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icebear said:
Humans never interbred with Neanderthals.
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You're flat out wrong.

Genetic evidence published in 2010 suggests that Neanderthals contributed to the DNA of anatomically modern humans, probably through interbreeding between 80,000 and 30,000 years ago with a population of anatomically modern humans. According to the study, by the time that population began dispersing across Eurasia, Neanderthal genes constituted as much as 1–4% of its genome (roughly equivalent to having one Neanderthal great-great-great-grandparent).[25][26][27] Ötzi the iceman, Europe's oldest preserved mummy, was found to possess an even higher percentage of Neanderthal ancestry.[28] Recent findings suggest there may be even more Neanderthal genes in non-African humans than previously expected: approximately 20% of the Neanderthal gene pool was present in a broad sampling of non-African individuals, yet each individual's genome was only 2% Neanderthal.[29]
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maxpower1227 said:
No, evolution was not "the cornerstone of Nazism".
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From Sir Arthur Keith's "Evolution and Ethics:


Chapter 3

The Behavior of Germany Considered from an Evolutionary Point of View in 1942

VISITORS TO GERMANY IN 1934 FOUND AN emotional storm sweeping through masses of the people, particularly the more educated. The movement had much in common with a religious revival. The preacher in this case was Adolf Hitler; his doctrine was, and is, tribalism; he had stirred in the emotional depths of the German people those long-dormant tribal feelings which find release and relief in mutual service; men and women who had been leading selfish lives or were drifting aimlessly were given a new purpose in life: service to their country the Third Reich. It is worth noting that Hitler uses a double designation for his tribal doctrine National Socialism: Socialism standing for the good side of the tribal spirit (that which works within the Reich); aud Nationalism for the ethically vicious part, which dominates policy at and outside the German frontiers.

The leader of Germany is an evolutionist not only in theory, but, as millions know to their cost, in the rigor of its practice. For him the national "front" of Europe is also the evolutionary "front"; he regards himself, and is regarded, as the incarnation of the will of Germany, the purpose of that will being to guide the evolutionary destiny of its people. He has brought into

10.

modern life the tribal and evolutionary mentality of prehistoric times. Hitler has confronted the statesmen of the world with an evolutionary problem of an unprecedented magnitude. What is the world to do with a united aggressive tribe numbering eighty millions!
 
icebear said:
From Sir Arthur Keith's "Evolution and Ethics:


Chapter 3

The Behavior of Germany Considered from an Evolutionary Point of View in 1942

VISITORS TO GERMANY IN 1934 FOUND AN emotional storm sweeping through masses of the people, particularly the more educated. The movement had much in common with a religious revival. The preacher in this case was Adolf Hitler; his doctrine was, and is, tribalism; he had stirred in the emotional depths of the German people those long-dormant tribal feelings which find release and relief in mutual service; men and women who had been leading selfish lives or were drifting aimlessly were given a new purpose in life: service to their country the Third Reich. It is worth noting that Hitler uses a double designation for his tribal doctrine National Socialism: Socialism standing for the good side of the tribal spirit (that which works within the Reich); aud Nationalism for the ethically vicious part, which dominates policy at and outside the German frontiers.

The leader of Germany is an evolutionist not only in theory, but, as millions know to their cost, in the rigor of its practice. For him the national "front" of Europe is also the evolutionary "front"; he regards himself, and is regarded, as the incarnation of the will of Germany, the purpose of that will being to guide the evolutionary destiny of its people. He has brought into

10.

modern life the tribal and evolutionary mentality of prehistoric times. Hitler has confronted the statesmen of the world with an evolutionary problem of an unprecedented magnitude. What is the world to do with a united aggressive tribe numbering eighty millions!
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So I provide quotes from Hitler himself, and you counter with quotes from the one guy who claims that Hitler was an evolutionist, who never knew Hitler and apparently never read Hitler, simply making a claim without evidence. Touché? :rolleyes:
 
icebear said:
Humans never interbred with Neanderthals.
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...so much for "being right". Didn't last long.

icebear said:
That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on... That's basically idiotic.
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Cool story, bro.

icebear said:
In real life:
Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner left her alone for ten minutes.
The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be exceedingly obvious.
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Thank you for all the scholarly evidence you provided for your anecdote.
 
icebear said:
Another way to look at it: horses and donkeys are very much closer to each other than humans were to Neanderthals and all mules are sterile. Likewise James Shreve noted (Neanderthal Peace 1996) that there was no physical evidence on the planet of such cross breeding.
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Well, there's at least part of your problem...
 
icebear said:
Where are their mixed species offspring??
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That -usually- doesn't happen if there's a different number of chromosomes, and has never been recorded to have happened with humans... unless you'd like to consider bronze age myth as truth, of course (which I get the impression you probably do in a specific case, but these aren't the same bronze age myths).

I suppose the flood story (Noah) might qualify as a similar sort of circumstance... heavenly beings mating with humans and such; but most of us know that that is all purely made up ancient fantasy, now don't we? I also somehow doubt that Neanderthals would qualify as "heavenly beings" by any account, but I could be wrong on all counts (there's just no evidence which remotely suggests this, and it would require a God that intentionally faked evidence to the contrary -- but yeah, it could conceivably be true... if you're suitably high from internally supplied dopamine in response to religious ferver).
 
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icebear said:
Humans never interbred with Neanderthals.

That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on... That's basically idiotic.

In real life:
Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner left her alone for ten minutes.
The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be exceedingly obvious.
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LOL!!!
 
icebear said:
Humans never interbred with Neanderthals.

That amounts to thinking that a Neanderthal male could/would rape a woman and, rather than cooking and eating her afterwards as usual, somehow or other keep her alive long enough to bear a cross-species child, raise that child to reproductive age, and have him/her breed back into human populations without anybody catching on... That's basically idiotic.

In real life:
Neanderthal females would kill that woman the first time her new owner left her alone for ten minutes.
The woman wouldn't fare any better than the subjects of the commie attempts to breed humans and apes into super workers in the 1930s.
Humans would notice the child was different (really different...)
And humans would kill that child and everybody else like him as part of the same program which killed out the Neanderthal. They would not need DNA tests to determine who to kill for that sort of reason, it would be exceedingly obvious.
Click to expand...

When did you do your field work among the Neanderthals?
 
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