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ISIS teenager wants to come home

See above. Do you post and forget what you post a second later?

Words have meaning. Where have I put words in your mouth? What have I posted and forgot a second later? Let's try some honesty this time please.

Edit:
Corrected "out" to "put"
 
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Words have meaning. Where have I put words in your mouth? What have I posted and forgot a second later? Let's try some honesty this time please.

Edit:
Corrected "out" to "put"

I'm done with you Weasle. You don't seem to comprehend English. Enjoy your day.
 
Pimps have declared war against our countries? If not, I don't see how your silly comparison makes any sense.

It might be silly in your view, which you are entitled to hold. However, all the other advance western nations have no problems bringing the children back and prosecuting the mothers:

Trials of Swedish Isis women to begin next year, says Kurdish representative - the Foreign Ministry is not aware of any criminal suspicions against Finns
Finland has negotiated the repatriation of Finns in the al-Hol camp.
Oct 2020 HS (paywall)

300 Swedes are on their way back to Sweden to face justice, including quite a few children.

About 300 people left SWEDEN for Syria and Iraq with the intention of joining the extremist Islamic terrorist organization Isis. According to security police Säpo, about half of those who left have returned to Sweden.

The Public Prosecutor's Office's department investigating international and organized crime has opened a total of a dozen preliminary investigations into the returnees, the Swedish broadcaster Sveriges Radio's news editor Ekot said on Tuesday. The criminal offenses are serious: the investigation includes war crimes and crimes against humanity.

- I think I have found indications of (suspected) on the links between Isis-state. That is why I think there is reason to suspect crimes, Prosecutor Thomas Ahlstrand tells the radio.
IS google translate


Amazing the UK which once had the best justice system in the world has chickened out and reverted to knee-jerk politics instead.
 
Anyway, can anyone make a coherent argument for why she should not be allowed to be present for her trial, or why her citizenship should be revoked?

Here's the argument I would make, if she had been an adult at the time: Pledging allegiance to some other regime that's at war with your country voids your right to citizenship in that country. If that other regime can't make it as a sovereign nation-state, that's your problem. If that regime loses the war without ever becoming sovereign, then you are stateless by your own hand. Your former country owes you nothing.

As a separate issue, stateless refugees from a failed regime are a humanitarian problem to be solved collectively by the nations that care to solve it. This would probably end up with a consensus agreement between those nations that refugees would be repatriated to their former homes, which would then deal with them according to rule of law. Such refugees could petition to be repatriated to somewhere else, but that would be entirely up to their desired home to decide whether to grant the petition.

With very few exceptions (none of which occur to me right now), none of these refugees should be tried in absentia for any alleged crimes. If you have the jurisdiction to put them on trial, you have the responsibility to bring them to trial.

However, in cases where the "foreign fighter" was a minor at the time of their absconding, the automatic loss of citizenship should be waived. A trial should be held (with the accused present), and if the accused recants their allegiance to the foreign regime, that should be the end of the citizenship question.

I see nothing in this particular scenario that makes me think I should reconsider. Does anyone else have anything that might change my mind? Or that I should at least give some serious thought?

ETA: One reason not to bring her home for trial just occurred to me.
If ISIS taught her psychic powers, and if she gets within 1,000 km of the Prime Minister, there's a risk she could end up ruling the country by proxy.
 
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She could groom others?

That seems more like a post-trial problem. Keeping her detained pending trial would mostly address that.

Also, if it were up to me, contact tracing and communications monitoring would be conditions of her probation. Assuming her sentence extended to allowing her to rejoin society in some capacity. I'm not worried enough about the grooming risk to consider banning her from the country during her trial.
 
Anyway, can anyone make a coherent argument for why she should not be allowed to be present for her trial, or why her citizenship should be revoked?

It makes good press from the point of view of a godawful Tory government playing to a populace educated largely by tabloid 'journalism'?
 
It makes good press from the point of view of a godawful Tory government playing to a populace educated largely by tabloid 'journalism'?

Okay, a coherent argument that doesn't reduce to partisan political catchphrases? If nothing else, there's a number of people in this thread who seem fairly excited about keeping her out of the country. Are you suggesting they're all dupes of tabloid journalism and a Tory government?
 
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Okay, a coherent argument that doesn't reduce to partisan political catchphrases? If nothing else, there's a number of people in this thread who seem fairly excited about keeping her out of the country. Are you suggesting they're all dupes of tabloid journalism and a Tory government?


I'll be honest, I haven't read the thread, so I can't speak for them.

I'll put a tenner down on mine being the 'why' of it though.
 
Sounds like the groomers got three for the price of two. I wonder how much the "help people in war torn Syria" rhetoric resembles the "help people in war torn Palestine" rhetoric. Sadly it's too late for Begum to compare notes with Corrie.
 
Sounds like the groomers got three for the price of two. I wonder how much the "help people in war torn Syria" rhetoric resembles the "help people in war torn Palestine" rhetoric. Sadly it's too late for Begum to compare notes with Corrie.

ISIS recruited these under age girls for sexual exploitation. Women were expected to fulfil a clearly gendered role as wives, concubines and mothers. ISIS did not recruit women as fighters. Men were recurred as warriors / jihadists with the promise of wives.

This was internet grooming.

The ISIS propaganda was about building a new purer Islamic society. Part of the attraction is the brotherhood of Islam, the very strong anti-racist ethos within Islam that attracted those from stigmatised and oppressed populations to the promise of a better future in the Caliphate. You may be old and cynical and see through this, but this sort of religious propaganda has attracted many. Think of the many cults that have recruited young women (and men). Scientology some how recruits rich and at first sight intelligent actors. Even the catholic church seems to have a dubious nature. Young women were recruited into religious orders that then were responsible for cruel acts on pregnant women and illegitimate children. One might argue many nuns did worse than this young woman's done.

There is as far as I am aware no actual terrorist act that Begum has been accused of. Not that she had much time to do that between two marriages and three births.
 
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There is as far as I am aware no actual terrorist act that Begum has been accused of. Not that she had much time to do that between two marriages and three births.

She joined a terrorist group with the aim of aiding and abetting them.
 

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