Is Marijuana Harmless?

[milesalpha]

SOoo, Milkesalpha, without taking time off to raise a family, it took you 26 years to get a bachelors in history? and no mention of career accomplishments, never held one job long enough to meet minimum un-employment rerquirements... what a human dynamo! You sound like a typical pot-head to me! I bet your cars have lots of little dents in them too. But no big accidents like a drinker might have...

Yup, sounds like a harmless drug to me. I 've known some pot heads in my time, I just heve never met one that attained his full potential while getting stoned. The easy happiness from drugs seems to eliminate the need for actually accomplishing anything to be proud of. Sort of like masturbation, it's biggest drawback is that exessive use means you miss out on bigger things in life.

Ah, so, if I understand you correctly, the mere fact that I did not go into depth on my employment history means that you can take wild liberties with a translation?
Where to start with your little analysis. It is indeed worthy of the LC forum. Let's see, how about my business? Pik-A-Flik Home Video (Oliver, BC) was begun in 1984 on a shoestring budget and 80 titles (I worked a 40 hour job as a night auditor for the first two years). We were told by the small business expert at the local Royal Bank that we would not last 3 months due to the plethora of video stores in the area. In 1999 we sold the business to finance the cost of my schooling, of the 12 video stores in a 25 mile radius, there were 3 left. We had over 9000 VHS titles (and not a Blockbuster list, I had everything from foreign to Anime, British comedy to hunting and fishing) and were the first to add DVDs. Our customer service was well known, we cleaned VCRs and made house calls for stuck tapes and trouble hooking up machines(never charged a dime, but did get the odd nice Christmas present). Not once did we sell out (as I would say) to corporate nets like Rentrak, designed to take local control out of selection. Through the store we promoted numerous local charities and events. We were one of two primary sponsors on the yearly RCMP Bike Rodeo. And I can safely say that our charitable contributions ranked with any other business in town. I would likely still be doing it but my doctor strongly suggested I reduce my stress level (yes, I took it that seriously)in the year we sold it.
That's one job, is that enough? I can go back to 3 years as a Famous Players theatre manager as well, it ended up giving me that affinity for movies that made the video store so successful.
Further, my car is a blue 2001 Sunfire. Sorry, no dents, but there is a small scrape where an old man backed into me last year (I haven't had an accident or a ticket in 26 years). I didn't have the heart to bother him for his insurance, and the actual damage is not noticeable if you don't look for it (just paint, no body damage). Oh and it's fully paid for.
You didn't ask but my home doesn't have any dents either. I have a 27,000 dollar mortgage left on it, I should have it paid out within 5 years.

Is that enough, or are there more doubts about my financial health? Anything more constructive or do you wish to hurl more Reagan-inspired stereotypes at me?

 

[wolfgirl]

SOoo, Milkesalpha, without taking time off to raise a family, it took you 26 years to get a bachelors in history? and no mention of career accomplishments, never held one job long enough to meet minimum un-employment rerquirements... what a human dynamo! You sound like a typical pot-head to me! I bet your cars have lots of little dents in them too. But no big accidents like a drinker might have...

Yup, sounds like a harmless drug to me. I 've known some pot heads in my time, I just heve never met one that attained his full potential while getting stoned. The easy happiness from drugs seems to eliminate the need for actually accomplishing anything to be proud of. Sort of like masturbation, it's biggest drawback is that exessive use means you miss out on bigger things in life.

Well, aren't we holier-than-thou? You make a lot of judgments here that you have no way of knowing.

Apparently NOT smoking pot makes one an arrogant *****.

 

[epepke]

I don't understand the drug issue at all really. Here are some facts, see if you can make sense of them.

1) We know that for many drugs, like marijuana, the potential harm is much lower than that of already legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco. This implies that their illegal status has more to do with politics than anything else.

Probably true.

2) The alcohol and tobacco giants have a huge lobbying presence in washington and could probably get drugs like marijuana legalized if they wanted to.

Probably false. You may have noticed that tobacco companies have been governmental whipping boys for some time now.

3) The alcohol and tobacco giants have the infrastructure in place to jump to the lead in any new market created by the legalization of a now-illegal drug, such as marijuana.

Certainly true. I'm sure they'd love legalization.

4) Marijuana remains illegal.

True.

What did I miss?

I think you're missing two things:

1) Tobacco played an enormous role in the history of the US.

2) They did try to make alcohol illegal. After many years, I'm not sure why repeal happened. I have two best guesses:

a) People thought the Federal taxes that had been traditional since the Whiskey Rebellion would help end the Depression.

b) The feminist movement that had pushed for Prohibition as well as Suffrage had run out of steam.

 

[milesalpha]

I'm going out on a limb here, but, perhaps, you are in a mild, perpetual state of stoniness due to your daily usage? It doesn't sound as though you 'feel' stoned the next day. It sounds as though you are stoned the next day.

Hmm it is possible, but since I have had the odd hospital stay over the years, or other circumstances in which use was not wise (any time I travelled abroad or to the US in particular) and have never noticed any real difference, I think it unlikely. But then, the marijuana stone just doesn't last that long, even with today's pot (4-5 times THC levels of early 70s). Also, being perpetually stoned would have to show up in work performance at some point. I am a "time and a place" sort of guy.

 

[milesalpha]

Hey, are you my husband?

I have a similar background and story. Graduated from college magna cum laude (after working my way through completely on my own). Have always had a job. Happily married for 25 years. Etc.

If, after a hard day at work, I want to come home and smoke a joint rather than pouring myself a cold beer (I hate the taste of beer), who am I harming? If I don't go out and drive around (which I don't), why is it anybody's business?

The whole question has become so politicized that it is impossible for there to be any real intelligent discussion about it.

Anything in excess can be bad for you. I don't want or need the government to be my father and keep me from doing anything that might hurt me. I'm a big girl; let me make up my own mind.

I've checked with my wife (still a pot smoker at age 52, so she has 5 years on me) and she says I'm not. Agree with you 100%, right down to the hating beer part.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Probably true.



Probably false. You may have noticed that tobacco companies have been governmental whipping boys for some time now.



Certainly true. I'm sure they'd love legalization.



True.



I think you're missing two things:

1) Tobacco played an enormous role in the history of the US.

2) They did try to make alcohol illegal. After many years, I'm not sure why repeal happened. I have two best guesses:

a) People thought the Federal taxes that had been traditional since the Whiskey Rebellion would help end the Depression.

b) The feminist movement that had pushed for Prohibition as well as Suffrage had run out of steam.

I don't see how any of this would prevent marijuana from being legalized.


The only reason it's illegal is stupid people who make the laws and stupid people who vote for the stupid people making the laws.

Simple as that.

 

[wolfgirl]

They did try to make alcohol illegal.

And what a resounding success THAT was.

People like to have the freedom to use mind-altering substances. Making them illegal generally doesn't make them go away, it just drives them underground, where they get mixed up with crime and all sorts of negative elements. During Prohibition, people didn't stop using alcohol. But alcohol sure got involved with Organized Crime. Which made it more dangerous, not less.

Yet people can't seem to see the correlation to pot being illegal. One of the arguments someone gave earlier against pot is that it's illegal so you have to go to bad people to get it. That's not an argument against pot; it's an argument against pot being illegal!

 

[Lamuella]

That sentence makes no sense. "harmless" means causes no harm. There are plenty of things that do not cause harm and actually benefit.

If you're speaking generally..Sure, Just about anything CAN cause harm if used in that specific way it causes harm. Water included kills thousands a year.

But Marijuana..If used correctly doesn't cause harm. I.E. smoked or consumed like food. Which is what we're all refering to.

Why are you arguing with me as if I'm saying that marijuana is a bad thing? I'm not, and never have. What I'm saying is that it's possble for something to not be a bad thing and at the same time not to be absolutely harmless. Breathing in burning plant matter is not harmless, no matter what the burning plant matter is.

It's entirely possible we're talking cross purposes with regard to the issue of "harm". The first time I smoked cannabis, I inhaled too much too quickly and spent the next half an hour coughing my guts up. I came fairly close to throwing up. I'd consider that to be harm. It gave me no lasting damage, of course, but I'd consider it to be harm as much as a hangover is harm from drinking too much alcohol (and yes, I know the hangover is mainly caused by dehydration). When I said cannabis wasn't harmless, I wasn't saying that it caused lasting damage.

 

[Lamuella]

I have never seen this done.

common practice in the UK, and other places where hash is more common than grass.

 

[Boo]

This: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Health+issues+and+the+effects+of+cannabis appears a fairly balanced and comprehensive look at the various effects of marijuana use, both short term and long term.

Speaking strictly from personal observational experience of individuals intoxicated on alcohol and marijuana as a Paramedic, give me the stoner anyday.


Boo

 

[wolfgirl]

common practice in the UK, and other places where hash is more common than grass.

Ahhh...thanks for clarifying. I thought maybe I was doing it wrong. (Actually, I couldn't bear the thought of smoking tobacco, so if I had to do it that way, I'd probably have to quit.)

 

[milesalpha]

Probably true.



Probably false. You may have noticed that tobacco companies have been governmental whipping boys for some time now.



Certainly true. I'm sure they'd love legalization.



True.



I think you're missing two things:

1) Tobacco played an enormous role in the history of the US.

2) They did try to make alcohol illegal. After many years, I'm not sure why repeal happened. I have two best guesses:

a) People thought the Federal taxes that had been traditional since the Whiskey Rebellion would help end the Depression.

b) The feminist movement that had pushed for Prohibition as well as Suffrage had run out of steam.

Under Bush, the tobacco companies have not exactly been whipping boys, there have been efforts to slip amendments into bills allowing the tobacco companies to dodge the Rico endictments.

Hmmm you claim that the tobacco and alcohol industry would love to see it legalized. I wonder who funds the "Partnership for a Drug Free America"? For those who can't wait for the reply, you will find tobacco, alcohol, and phamaceutical companies at the top of the list. You see, marijuana is just a weed, grows like crazy anywhere, needs no special harvesting or curing, and so, is very easy to produce privately. No profit in that, is there?

Or c) Prohibition was a complete failure. It financed the rise of organized crime. Alcoholism rates rose, as did crimes associated with alcohol use and production. It promoted the illegal production of alcohol that lacked safety standards to protect the user. Public resistance steadily rose until the repeal of Prohibition.

 

[wolfgirl]

Speaking strictly from personal observational experience of individuals intoxicated on alcohol and marijuana as a Paramedic, give me the stoner anyday.

Some comedian once did a bit on this and said something to the effect of "You're always hearing about guys getting drunk and beating up their wives. You never hear about guys getting stoned and beating up their wives. Getting stoned and FORGETTING to beat up their wives, maybe..."

 

[milesalpha]

This: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Health+issues+and+the+effects+of+cannabis appears a fairly balanced and comprehensive look at the various effects of marijuana use, both short term and long term.

Speaking strictly from personal observational experience of individuals intoxicated on alcohol and marijuana as a Paramedic, give me the stoner anyday.


Boo

Funny, a buddy of mine owned a bar and always used to say the same thing. Stoners were peaceful, really got into the entertainment, and his food sales soared.
The drinkers were the ones causing the fights, throwing up in the bathrooms, and causing most of the damage he suffered.

 

[wolfgirl]

Funny, a buddy of mine owned a bar and always used to say the same thing. Stoners were peaceful, really got into the entertainment, and his food sales soared.
The drinkers were the ones causing the fights, throwing up in the bathrooms, and causing most of the damage he suffered.

Yeah, when people talk about how bad pot is for you, they ignore the fun effects of alcohol, like throwing up and hangovers. Pot doesn't make you throw up, and you feel fine in the morning.

 

[milesalpha]

The ultimate argument, also coined by a comedian (Hicks?) is that, if you look at music over the last 40 years and separate the stoned from the non-stoned, which pile would you want to listen to? Dylan, the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, the Eagles, Bob Seger and Bob Marley in one pile. New Kids on the Block, Donny and Marie, Hillary Duff and Michael Jackson in the other. Are you sure drugs are bad?

 

[wolfgirl]

I've known several people with Cancer and MS that say it is better than the stuff prescribed by their doctors and far less expensive.

My late mother-in-law was suffering from cancer, and pot was the only thing that quelled the nausea.

 

[madmonk76]

Har har.

I've hung around with enough stoners to know it definitely has long-term deleterious effects on heavy users, but frankly that's the same for pretty much anything. If I eat enough fish suppers then my health is sure to be harmed too, yet in small quantities food is actually beneficial. Go figure!

As for joints not causing lung cancer specifically, I would contend that it comes down the recipe of the joint as to how much your risk is increased by. Most people mix a little drug with a lot of tobacco, so they're smoking 90% cigarette and 10% gange. That's got to be a cancer risk.

I've never heard of anyone mixing tabacco in their pot at all, never mind at that ratio...

 

[senorpogo]

Sagan smoked the weed quite frequently. And he credited it for inspiring some of his scientific work.

edited to add:
I can't help but laugh everytime I watch Cosmos now.
"Time to toke up, get into my spaceship, and fly through the canals of Mars!"

 

[Polaris]

I don't understand the drug issue at all really. Here are some facts, see if you can make sense of them.

1) We know that for many drugs, like marijuana, the potential harm is much lower than that of already legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco. This implies that their illegal status has more to do with politics than anything else.

2) The alcohol and tobacco giants have a huge lobbying presence in washington and could probably get drugs like marijuana legalized if they wanted to.

3) The alcohol and tobacco giants have the infrastructure in place to jump to the lead in any new market created by the legalization of a now-illegal drug, such as marijuana.

4) Marijuana remains illegal.

What did I miss? It seems to me that the drug industry would make a sh--load of cash if marijuana was legalized. So why hasn't it been done?

You're exactly right - they WOULD make buttloads of money with it. You're forgetting something: the criminal justice system and the American Bar Association are also huge lobbies, and they have a major, MAJOR vested interest in keeping marijuana illegal. Ever notice how every anti-marijuana ad and every study showing the "evils" of loco-weed are US Government approved (and usually funded)?