Is Marijuana Harmless?

[Jocky]

The level of lung cancer risk from cannabis has to be directly related to mode of use.

It seems very unlikely that it has any significant association to cancer if ingested. As far as I know the effect of cannabis smoke when unadulterated by tobacco (as from a water pipe for example) remains totally untested.

Therefore, I don't think that this study has much to do with whether or not it should be illegal. If a health risk is associated with only one particular way of taking a drug, then that risk is just a user education issue, not a reason for prohibition or legalisation.

 

[stup_id]

Mea culpa, Mea culpa, of course legalization in Netherlands doesn't mean more people has to consume it... bad argument... (but it certainly gives an interesting point in favor of legalization, which is not the topic here haha)

Also i wrote very careless, of course there's a correlation between drug consumption and Mental Illness.. what i've meant (better expressed by someone else) was that correlation is not causation, and what seems to predispose to mental illness may be more the fact of being easily addicted to something, than the substance itself (is this more clear?)

Myself, I've spent my puberty smoking dope. When I had an emotional problem, my solution was to light up another joint. Needless to say, that wasn't working out for me in the long run.

Also, my thinking skills and memory clearly suffered from cannabis. And not just when I was stoned, because if you smoke a lot there's always enough THC in your body to prevent you from becoming entirely sober. When I finally stopped it took at least months for the clouds in my head to clear up.

I'm sorry to hear that, altought is harder to imagine what would have happened if in ever emotional problem you've recurred to get really drunk, or to smoke an entire package of tobaccco cigarretes.

Myself I don't consume marihuana, but I know lot of people that do, including very brilliant students, and of course some people.. well.. not very brilliant.. the think is that there's also a lot of people with limited cognitive abilities that don't use marihuana; even if the memory or thinking skills in average between consumers and non consumers turns out to be significantly different, how can you know that marihuana was a cause, and not that marihuana consumption is a consecuence of having impaired thinking skills?

Obviously marihuana is not harmless... but stating that its consumption rises the posibility of suffering mental diseases (such schizophrenia) is a very unsupported argument.. and that's basically what i meant

 

[Dredred]

even if the memory or thinking skills in average between consumers and non consumers turns out to be significantly different, how can you know that marihuana was a cause, and not that marihuana consumption is a consecuence of having impaired thinking skills?

I think at least a temporary deterioration of short term memory is a known side effect of cannabis use. I don't know of any studies, but to me it seems to be an obvious and widely accepted fact.

The point of my post, which I forgot to make, should have been that I think Cannabis is harmless if you use it in moderation and don't become dependant of it.

 

[LordoftheLeftHand]

As far as cancer goes, most smokers that I know smoke about 20 cigarettes a day. The biggest pot head I've ever known did not even come close to smoking that many joints a day. Maybe that is why marijuana might be less dangerous than cigarettes (at least on the cancer issue).

As far as marijuana being dangerous: In my life I've learned that just about anything can be dangerous.

Is it marijuana dangerous? Probably.

Is marijuana more dangerous than alcohol, crack, heroin, or prescription pain medication? Probably not.

LLH

 

[Lamuella]

the big problem with comparing cannabis to another smoked substance such as tobacco is that you can't simply compare what is released when smoking equal weights of each substance. Very very few users of cannabis will smoke 40 joints a day. Many many smokers will smoke 40 cigarettes a day. As people above have said, you need to associate with amount used by a typical user.

nobody other than the most fanatical pothead would argue that it's harmless, but few things in this world are harmless. It is, however, relatively harmless as compared to many other legal things that people do.

Personally, I very rarely smoke pot, certainly a lot more rarely than I drink alcohol, which is arguably a more dangerous substance if overindulged. As with anything, moderation is the key.

EDIT: badly beaten by LLH

 

[Stellafane]

On one of my early LSD trips...

Ah, at last you avatar finally makes sense.

 

[stup_id]

I think at least a temporary deterioration of short term memory is a known side effect of cannabis use. I don't know of any studies, but to me it seems to be an obvious and widely accepted fact.

Well yes.. it is very likely, in fact, in rats it has been proven that chronic blood administration of THC impairs short term memory, if someone wants the articles PM me.

But regarding humans in recreational dosis, this April 2006 article for instance:

Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2006 Apr;185(3):358-68. Epub 2006 Mar 7.
Long-term effects of frequent cannabis use on working memory and attention: an fMRI study.

Jager G, Kahn RS, Van Den Brink W, Van Ree JM, Ramsey NF.

Rudolf Magnus Institute of Neuroscience, Department of Psychiatry, A.01.126, University Medical Center, Heidelberglaan 100, 3584 CX, Utrecht, The Netherlands. gjager@umcutrecht.nl

CONCLUSION: No evidence was found for long-term deficits in working memory and selective attention in frequent cannabis users after 1 week of abstinence. Nonetheless, frequent cannabis use may affect brain function, as indicated by altered neurophysiological dynamics in the left superior parietal cortex during working memory processing.

Which ads more to the controversy I guess ahaha

 

[sophia8]

Ah, at last you avatar finally makes sense.

It's making sense? Um, what are you on...?

 

[blutoski]

According to a new study by shocked scientists at the University of California Los Angeles, even heavy marijuana use does not increase a person's chances of developing lung cancer.

I'd like to read the protocols, because my guess is that 'heavy' mj use might be 5g/day, whereas 'heavy' tobacco use might be 400g/day. There is a credible theory that intercolator carcinogen exposure has a minimum safe threshold, so perhaps it slips under.

The other relevant part of the article, somewhat glossed over here, is that heavy mj use *is* associated with other lung disease, and the lower cancer rates may be explainable by the fact that thc necrotizes the tissue instead of aggravating it. This causes premature aging of the lungs instead of tumours. Pick your method of premature death, basically, but the point is that 'less carcinogenic' does not translate to 'less harmful', even in this study.


Regarding schizophrenia - the observation is that for patients who have schizophrenia, the use of hallucinogens or narcotics can trigger episodes, and furthermore, it often conflicts with medications they're taking. There is no evidence that it 'causes' schizophrenia.

There is also a confusing thing called 'schizotypal' personalities, who are self-destructive, and drug use usually delays their recovery.

 

[milesalpha]

Ok, I will volunteer to be your first test subject on long term use.

Began smoking pot in 1978 at the age if 19.
Pot use steadily increased to my current usage level by age 35. Alcohol use decreased at the same rate. My last drink of alcohol was wine with a dinner about 9 months ago. I plan to be in my rocker, smoking a joint, in an appropriate old age home eventually.
Quit all other illicit drugs, including cocaine, quaaludes, acid, and mushrooms, in 1985, cold turkey and without problems.
Currently smoke about 4-7 grams a day, depending on availability and quality.
NEVER feel stoned the next day, never heard of that one.
I don't get the munchies, perhaps in part because I love doing other things, say posting on a forum, for instance, while stoned. (You may infer certain things about my current condition) You will never catch me buzzed out on a couch with a bag of Cheetos in my hand. Fishing, playing hockey (when you are an old goalie, you HAVE to be stoned), or chasing my wife around are all preferable activities.
I graduated from university 2 years ago at the tender age of 45, an 81 average overall and a 91 average in my core subject, history. Recommended for Masters', pursuing it part-time. (more as a hobby now, I'm too old to think career).
Married 19 years (only marriage), no children by choice (hey I am a pot smoker). Still deliriously in lust and love with my wife.
Have never collected a day of unemployment or welfare. Have never been without a job for more than a week since age 15.
Have served on the executive of service clubs (actually won an award for the area newsletter I wrote for the BC Kinsmen, they cited my comedy).
I have a deep appreciation for the work of both Bugs Bunny and Ian Kershaw.
I never use a spell-checker.




In sum my argument is that any problem with any substance really should be treated as a problem for that individual. Alcohol, codeine, paxil, marijuana...whatever is a health issue, not one of law enforcement. There is no reason I can't grow and enjoy my little weed in the privacy of my own home. If I were ever stupid enough to be driving, then fine, I deserve to be busted. Just don't think of me when you read about some idiot blowing bongs hits at his dog. Sorry, I never did learn to "just say no".

 

[strathmeyer]

nobody other than the most fanatical pothead would argue that it's harmless, but few things in this world are harmless. It is, however, relatively harmless as compared to many other legal things that people do.

Well, I'm certainly not a fantical pothead, but if smoking marijuana is harmful except for the fact that you're breathing in smoke (as in it's just as harmful as breathing in smoke from any burning plant matter) and some plant matter may get into your lungs, I'd like to hear about it. (As would, obviously, the thread starter.)

The problem is that anti-marijuana facists say stupid things about how marijuana causes cancer, and smoking a joint it the same as smoking a pack if cigarettes. People get confused when they're fed disinformation and it doesn't help anybody.

 

[casebro]

SOoo, Milkesalpha, without taking time off to raise a family, it took you 26 years to get a bachelors in history? and no mention of career accomplishments, never held one job long enough to meet minimum un-employment rerquirements... what a human dynamo! You sound like a typical pot-head to me! I bet your cars have lots of little dents in them too. But no big accidents like a drinker might have...

Yup, sounds like a harmless drug to me. I 've known some pot heads in my time, I just heve never met one that attained his full potential while getting stoned. The easy happiness from drugs seems to eliminate the need for actually accomplishing anything to be proud of. Sort of like masturbation, it's biggest drawback is that exessive use means you miss out on bigger things in life.

 

[Kochanski]

SOoo, Milkesalpha, without taking time off to raise a family, it took you 26 years to get a bachelors in history? and no mention of career accomplishments, never held one job long enough to meet minimum un-employment rerquirements... what a human dynamo! You sound like a typical pot-head to me! I bet your cars have lots of little dents in them too. But no big accidents like a drinker might have...

Yup, sounds like a harmless drug to me. I 've known some pot heads in my time, I just heve never met one that attained his full potential while getting stoned. The easy happiness from drugs seems to eliminate the need for actually accomplishing anything to be proud of. Sort of like masturbation, it's biggest drawback is that exessive use means you miss out on bigger things in life.

Sheesh, that is harsh, doesn't sound like milesalpha is leading a bad life or one that he didn't want. Not everyone wants to be king of the world. Not everyone needs to be a big mucky-muck executive. Not everyone feels called to a career in medicine or law or anything else that requires an advanced degree. We all get a just one life and it sounds like milesalpha is happy in his, so chill dude. And it sounds like he is far more responsible than the fools I have met (police, firefighters, etc) who get arrested for DUI.

(this is coming from someone who has NEVER smoked, drank or taken illegal drugs in her life)

 

[cloudshipsrule]

NEVER feel stoned the next day, never heard of that one.

Currently smoke about 4-7 grams a day, depending on availability and quality.

I'm going out on a limb here, but, perhaps, you are in a mild, perpetual state of stoniness due to your daily usage? It doesn't sound as though you 'feel' stoned the next day. It sounds as though you are stoned the next day.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Marijuana should definitly be legalized and sold just like Tobacco is currently sold. Same goes for alot of drugs currently scheduled in America.

The govt has been saying Marijuana is so dangerous and they spend millions a year on those stupid Marijuana commercials(I know You've all seen them).

Yet today right after one of those "above the influence" commercials harping about marijuana being evil...I see a BEER commercial. RIGHT afterwards! Miller light or something. More proof the govt is ignorant and hypocritcal.

For all the claims Marijuana makes you lazy and stupid...

1.There are studies showing chemicals in marijuana increase braincell growth. 2.You'd be supprised at the number of people who are very successful who use marijuana.
3.As mentioned before..Correlation isn't equal to Causation. Just because alot of marijuana users happen to be lazy or stupid doesn't mean it's due to marijuana. Most likely those kinds of people are just naturally drawn to marijuana.

So the physical health problems have been refuted....So have the mental ones.

Marijuana is in effect completly harmless if used correctly(In moderation and intelligently). That means not operating motor vehicles while high on it.



The same can be said for alot of currently illegal drugs.

 

[Lamuella]

Well, I'm certainly not a fantical pothead, but if smoking marijuana is harmful except for the fact that you're breathing in smoke (as in it's just as harmful as breathing in smoke from any burning plant matter) and some plant matter may get into your lungs, I'd like to hear about it. (As would, obviously, the thread starter.)

As you say, you are breathing in smoke. My point is that nothing in this world is "harmless". We can only jusdge things on a scale of harm caused.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

As you say, you are breathing in smoke. My point is that nothing in this world is "harmless". We can only jusdge things on a scale of harm caused.

That sentence makes no sense. "harmless" means causes no harm. There are plenty of things that do not cause harm and actually benefit.

If you're speaking generally..Sure, Just about anything CAN cause harm if used in that specific way it causes harm. Water included kills thousands a year.

But Marijuana..If used correctly doesn't cause harm. I.E. smoked or consumed like food. Which is what we're all refering to.

 

[wolfgirl]

Most people mix a little drug with a lot of tobacco, so they're smoking 90% cigarette and 10% gange.

I have never seen this done.

 

[Pinocchio]

Here are some studies, if anyone decides to bother, some of which can be found online. Use google.

1967
Leuchtenberger, C and Leuchtenberger, R
Cytological and cytochemical studies of the effects of fresh marijuana cigarette smoke on growth and DNA metabolism of animal and human lung cultures
The pharmacology of marijuana, Braude, MC and Szara, S, eds., Raven Press, 596-612

1975
Hoffman D, Brunnemann KD, Gori GB, et al
On the carcinogenicity of marijuana smoke
VC Runeckles, ed, Recent Advances in Phytochemistry Plenum, 9, 63-81

1976
Tashkin, DP, Shapiro, BJ, Lee, EY, et al
Subacute effects of heavy marijuana smoking on pulmonary function in healthy men
N Engl J Med 294, 125-129

1976
Abboud, RT, Sanders, HD
Effect of oral administration of delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol on airway mechanics in normal and subjects with asthma
Chest 70, 480-485

1979
Fleischman, RW, Baker, JR and Rosenkrantz, H
Pulmonary pathologic changes in rats exposed to marijuana smoke for one year
Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology 47, 557-566

1979
Rosenkrantz, H and Fleischman, RW
Effects of cannabis on lung
Marijuana: Biological effects, eds. Nahas, GG and Payton, WDH, Oxford, Pergamon Press, 279-299

1981
Cohen S
Adverse effects of marijuana: selected issues.
New York Academy of Sciences 362:119-124

1986
Sutton, S, Lum, BL and Torti, FM
Possible risk of invasive pulmonary aspergillosis with marijuana use during chemotherapy for small cell lung cancer
Drug Intelligence and Clinical Pharmacology 20, 289-291

1987
21 Barbers, RG, Gong, H, Tashkin, DP, Oishi, J and Wallace, HM
Differential examination of bronchoalveolar lavage cells in tobacco cigarette and marijuana smokers
Am Review of Respiratory Diseases 135, 1271-1275

1987
Tashkin, DP, Coulson, AH, Clark, VA, et al
Respiratory symptoms and lung function in habitual, heavy smokers of marijuana alone, smokers of marijuana and tobacco, smokers of tobacco alone and nonsmokers
Am Rev Respir Dis 135, 209-216

1987
Gong, H, Fligiel, S, Tashkin, DP, Barbers, RG
Tracheobronchial changes in habitual heavy smokers of marijuana with and without tobacco
Am Rev Respir Dis 136, 209-216

1988
Taylor, RM
Marijuana as a potential respiratory tract carcinogen: a retrospective analysis of a community hospital population
Southern Medical J. 81, 1213-1216

1988
Wu, TC, Tashkin, DP, Djahed, B and Rose, JE
Pulmonary hazards of smoking marijuana as compared with tobacco
New England J of Medicine 318, 6, 347-351

1989
Lester, BM; Dreher, M
Effects of marijuana use during pregnancy.
Child Development 60:764-771

1990
Rob M, Reynolds I, Finlayson PF
Adolescent marijuana use: risk factors and implications
Aust NZ J Psychiatry 24(1):45-56

1991
Fliegiel, SEG, Beals, TF, Tashkin, DP, Paule, MG, Scallet, AC, Ali, SF, Bailey, JR and Slikker, W
Marijuana exposure and pulmonary alterations in primates
Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behaviour 40, 637-642

1993
Block RI, Ghoneim MM
Effects of chronic marijuana use on human cognition
Psychopharmacology 100(1-2):219-228

1993
Endicott, JN, Skipper, P, Hernandez, L
Marijuana and head and neck cancer
Adv. Exp. Med. Biol. 335, 107-113

1993
Wengen, DF
Marijuana and malignant tumors of the upper aerodigestive tract in young patients
On the risk assessment of marijuana, Laryngorhinootologie 72, 264-267

1994
Klein TW, Newton C, Friedman H
Resistance to Legionella pneumophila suppressed by the marijuana component, tetrahydrocannabinol
J Infectious Disease 169:1177-1179

1994
Newton, C. A., T. W. Klein, and H. Friedman
Secondary immunity to Legionella pneumophila and Th1 activity are suppressed by 9-tetrahydrocannabinol injection
Infect. Immun. 62, 4015-4020

1995
Fried, PA
Prenatal exposure to marihuana and tobacco during infancy, early and middle childhood: effects and an attempt at synthesis
Arch Toxicol Supp 17:233-60

1996
Adams IB, Martin BR
Cannabis: pharmacology and toxicology in animals and humans.
Addiction 91:1585-1614

1996
Pope HG, Yurgelun-Todd D
The residual cognitive effects of heavy marijuana use in college students
JAMA 272(7):521-527

1997
Firth, NA
Marijuana use and oral cancer: a review.
Oral Oncol. 33, 398-401

1997
Tashkin, D P
Effects of marijuana on the lung and its immune defences
Secretary’s Youth Substance Abuse Prevention Initiative: Resource Papers, Center for Substance Abuse Prevention, 33-51

1997
Baldwin GC, Tashkin, DP, Buckley, DM et al
Habitual smoking of marijuana and cocaine impairs alveolar macrophage function and cytokine production
J Respir Crit Care Med 156, 1606-1613

1998
Michael D. Roth, Ashim Arora, Donald P. Tashkin et al
Airway Inflammation in Young Marijuana and Tobacco Smokers
AM J RESPIR CRIT CARE 157:928–937


1999
Zhang ZF, Morgenstern H, Spitz MR, et al
Marijuana use and increased risk of squamous cell carcinoma of the head and neck
Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention 6:1071-1078,

1999
Zang, ZF, Morgenstern, H, Spitz, MR, Tashkin, DP, Marshall, JR, Hsu, TC and Schantz, SP
Marijuana use and increased risk of squamous cell carcinoma of the head and neck Pulmonary pathophysiology and immune consequences of smoked substance abuse
FASEB Summer Research Conference, July 18-23, Copper Mountain, CO


1999
Tashkin, DP:
Effects of marijuana smoking profile on respiratory deposition of tar and absorption of CO and D-9 tratrahydrocanabinol Pulmonary pathophysiology and immune consequences of smoked substance abuse
FASEB Summer Research Conference, July 18-23, Copper Mountain, CO

2000
Zhu L, Stolina M, Sharma S, et al
Delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol inhibits antitumor immunity by a CB2 receptor-mediated, cytokine-dependent pathway
J Immunology, pp. 373-380.

2000
Johnson, MK, Smith, RP, Morrison, D et al
Large lung bullae in marijuana smokers
Thorax 55, 340-342

2001
Mittleman MA, Lewis RA, Maclure M, et al
Triggering myocardial infarction by marijuana
Circulation 103:2805-2809

2001
Ashton, H
Pharmacology and effects of cannabis: a brief review.
The Br J of Psychiatry 178, 101-106

2001
Pope, Gruber, Hudson, et al
Neuropsychological performance in long-term cannabis users
Archives of General Psychiatry 58:909-915

2003
Gruber, AJ, Pope HG, Hudson HI, Yurgelun-Todd D
Attributes of long-term heavy cannabis users: a case control study.
Psychological Medicine 33:1415-1422

 

[wolfgirl]

Ok, I will volunteer to be your first test subject on long term use.

Began smoking pot in 1978 at the age if 19.
Pot use steadily increased to my current usage level by age 35. Alcohol use decreased at the same rate. My last drink of alcohol was wine with a dinner about 9 months ago. I plan to be in my rocker, smoking a joint, in an appropriate old age home eventually.
Quit all other illicit drugs, including cocaine, quaaludes, acid, and mushrooms, in 1985, cold turkey and without problems.
Currently smoke about 4-7 grams a day, depending on availability and quality.
NEVER feel stoned the next day, never heard of that one.
I don't get the munchies, perhaps in part because I love doing other things, say posting on a forum, for instance, while stoned. (You may infer certain things about my current condition) You will never catch me buzzed out on a couch with a bag of Cheetos in my hand. Fishing, playing hockey (when you are an old goalie, you HAVE to be stoned), or chasing my wife around are all preferable activities.
I graduated from university 2 years ago at the tender age of 45, an 81 average overall and a 91 average in my core subject, history. Recommended for Masters', pursuing it part-time. (more as a hobby now, I'm too old to think career).
Married 19 years (only marriage), no children by choice (hey I am a pot smoker). Still deliriously in lust and love with my wife.
Have never collected a day of unemployment or welfare. Have never been without a job for more than a week since age 15.
Have served on the executive of service clubs (actually won an award for the area newsletter I wrote for the BC Kinsmen, they cited my comedy).
I have a deep appreciation for the work of both Bugs Bunny and Ian Kershaw.
I never use a spell-checker.




In sum my argument is that any problem with any substance really should be treated as a problem for that individual. Alcohol, codeine, paxil, marijuana...whatever is a health issue, not one of law enforcement. There is no reason I can't grow and enjoy my little weed in the privacy of my own home. If I were ever stupid enough to be driving, then fine, I deserve to be busted. Just don't think of me when you read about some idiot blowing bongs hits at his dog. Sorry, I never did learn to "just say no".

Hey, are you my husband?

I have a similar background and story. Graduated from college magna cum laude (after working my way through completely on my own). Have always had a job. Happily married for 25 years. Etc.

If, after a hard day at work, I want to come home and smoke a joint rather than pouring myself a cold beer (I hate the taste of beer), who am I harming? If I don't go out and drive around (which I don't), why is it anybody's business?

The whole question has become so politicized that it is impossible for there to be any real intelligent discussion about it.

Anything in excess can be bad for you. I don't want or need the government to be my father and keep me from doing anything that might hurt me. I'm a big girl; let me make up my own mind.