Interesting JE Hits....

[neofight]

No, it's not obvious. Knowing the twisted functioning of JE's brain is anything but obvious.

Yes, even you are entitled to your opinion, dingler44!

Neo, if anyone around here thinks they can read JE's mind, it's you.

Yes, that's probably correct, d44, and with good reason, too, I might add.

If this is proof to you... it is indeed a sad day for logic and reason.

Yes, I'm sure Instig8R's theory makes much more sense to you dingler. He sees letters and names, he doesn't hear them. That's why he can't tell that the name Ellen begins with an "E", and the name Helen begins with an "H". That makes eminently more sense than what I said.
......neo

 

[dingler44]

No, actually. Although I am very appreciative of all the work renata did on breaking down those LKL transcripts, I do not consider such reading "snippets" to be of much use in evaluating JE's mediumship abilities. So it's not that I didn't notice what messages were wrong, I just never checked out that thread, since it's basically useless, imo.

I guess I just find that foremat as unacceptable as the skeptics, yourself included, find the edited transcripts on "CO". .....neo

Snippets? It was analysis of each full LKL reading. Those weren't snippets. I suspect you find it basically useless because it is so damning.

JE is a very lucky man... to be able to make such a lucrative living at a craft he's not even good at.

 

[Darat]

Slightly OT, but have you ever been interested in the mentalists and magicians who, even though they know they intentionally do tricks and deception, are still surprised by things that happen during this process, things that go beyond "what can be explained as trick or deception"?

They, of all people, should be able to attribute everything to "the mundane explanation".

Not that much (any examples you'd like to share ) after all "spooky" things happen to us all, from coincidences to accidents to surprises.

Plus I always take with a bloody big boulder of salt claims by professional entertainers, whether they be magicians, pop-stars, movie-stars, mentalists etc.. Look at David Blaine who likes to create the air of mystery around him – it’s a good way to garner publicity and makes for a good stage act but I wouldn't necessarily believe what the "stage persona" of DB said!


(Edited to add)

Sorry Clancie I hadn’t read the posts further down, I made my comment about DB coincidentally ... spooky or what

The reason for my comments about DB was that he appeared on a UK TV breakfast show and just was completely non-responsive to the interviewer etc. - obviously part of his act to appear "weird". It's been repeated on several TV shows such as “It shouldn't happen to... a TV presenter".

 

[neofight]

Sorry but this doesn't make sense to me, do what that JE does?

I've seen sessions of cold-readings where the sitters have stated that the reader must be "psychic" because they were “so accurate”, even when the reader claimed no such power...

Sure I've only seen people who claim to have the power that JE does perform a similar act, for instance Colin Fry, but then what would be the point of a whole show of doing that type of act for a mentalist?! It’s a one shot demonstration, after that it has no entertainment value…

I've seen acts where they have told people their PIN number, where they have "read someones" mind and knew what card they had chosen, what word they'd wrote down from a magazine and kept hidden, where items have appeared in their pockets etc...

Neo – have you ever considered that all the magicians in the world are part of a secret conspiracy and in fact do have “superpowers” that let them catch a bullet in their teeth, duplicate a drawing that they couldn’t see being drawn, know what my PIN is by reading my mind. Of course you haven’t, yet for some reason you just can’t seem to see that JE does nothing different from these people, apart from he tells us he has a superpower.

Darat, your above post only proves that you are not really familiar with JE at all, and you just lump all believers together into one big category and file it under "I" for Idiots, or at the very least, "N" for "Naive". Sorry to say this, but you seem to be absolutely clueless on the subject of mediumship vs. cold-reading, and I really can't continue with this post because I am beginning to get irritated. ......neo

 

[CFLarsen]

neo,

Do you have any comment on the lack of support for your claim about the brain?

What happens to those readings at CO that are longer than 11 minutes?

You haven't indicated that you won't answer these questions, so I will keep asking them.

 

[voidx]

Posted by Neofight:
Perhaps, to an extent. I will qualify my previous remarks by adding the possibility that what allows telepathy to occur, may not be found in any physical part of the brain at all, but may very well be this separate consciousness that we talk about, that some believe survives our physical death. In that case, then I guess I would be wrong to say that telepathy is a function of the brain. ......neo

Will you acknowledge that since there seems to be no evidence so far of telepathy originating in the physical brain, that the other-wordly spiritual explanation should be your assumption until present with further proof? Or at the very least that if you still believe it to be part of the physical brain, that there seems to be nothing supporting that assertion?

 

[dingler44]

edited to add: Dingler44, Many magicians do a levitation trick. Where has David Blaine said he actually is levitating, physically lifting himself off the ground without any trick or gimmick?

Beyond that, however, you're right, he does have a very interesting spiritual side.

I'm right? I never said Blaine has an interesting spiritual side. Do NOT twist my words. I repeat, do NOT twist my words.

Here is the quote that Clancie the great deceiver has misrepresented:

He is probably just another new aged woo-woo who "gets a weird feeling" when doing some of his tricks... that he likes to chalk up to spirituality.

This is the SECOND time I've had to request this courtesy of you Clancie, but I ask that you either amend your misrepresentation of my post or omit it entirely.

Regarding where Blaine says he is actually levitating - I already told you - it's in Street Magic. The narrator of the show explicitly states that "David Blaine will perform a real levitation." And because this is Blaine's film, directed and produced by Blaine, the narrator's comments are at the very least condoned by Blaine. Watch the movie, it's quite entertaining aside from deceptive levitation scam.

See this thread for more on the Blaine levitation scam:
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10648&highlight=balducci

 

[Darat]

Darat, your above post only proves that you are not really familiar with JE at all, and you just lump all believers together into one big category and file it under "I" for Idiots, or at the very least, "N" for "Naive". Sorry to say this, but you seem to be absolutely clueless on the subject of mediumship vs. cold-reading, and I really can't continue with this post because I am beginning to get irritated. ......neo

Why does it show this? How does it show I just lump all "believers together into one big category"?

My post may have irratated you, but it would be useful to understand your rational objections and counterpoints to my post.

 

[Clancie]

Posted by dingler44

I'm right? I never said Blaine has an interesting spiritual side. Do NOT twist my words. I repeat, do NOT twist my words.

I admit that was a bit sloppy. I'm happy to correct it, however, and I think you're totally overreacting.

....Clancie the great deceiver...

I don't like your rude tone at all, dingler44.

(....biting my tongue....)

This is the SECOND time I've had to request this courtesy of you Clancie, but I ask that you either amend your misrepresentation of my post or omit it entirely.

Amended. Done.

Regarding where Blaine says he is actually levitating - I already told you - it's in Street Magic. The narrator of the show explicitly states that "David Blaine will perform a real levitation."

What do most other magicians say when they perform levitation? "I'm not really levitating anything, but watch how I can trick you into thinking that I am?"

"A real levitation" could also mean "a real (trick) of levitation", dingler44.

 

[dingler44]

I admit that was a bit sloppy. I'm happy to correct it, however, and I think you're totally overreacting.

I don't like your rude tone at all, dingler44.

(....biting my tongue....)

I'm sick of your diversion and misrepresentation Clancie - it's chronic.


What do most other magicians say when they perform levitation? "I'm not really levitating anything, but watch how I can trick you into thinking that I am?"


I would expect them to say they were going to perform a levitation. spectacular levitation, amazing levitation, mind-blowing, startling... hundreds of words could produce excitement and interest without claiming the levitation is "real." Come on Clancie, think a little... I thought you were open minded.


"A real levitation" could also mean "a real (trick) of levitation", dingler44.

haha... truly hilarious. So we should infer "trick" whenever a magician uses the word "real?" Maybe we should start saying "honest" when we mean "dishonest" or "stand" when we mean "sit." Hell let's just change the English language so every word and its opposite are interchangeable.

As a side note, I don't care what you think of my tone Clancie, you'd be hypocritical to expect anything else.

*edited to remove a naughty word!*

 

[Lurker]

What do most other magicians say when they perform levitation? "I'm not really levitating anything, but watch how I can trick you into thinking that I am?"

"A real levitation" could also mean "a real (trick) of levitation", dingler44.

I agree with you here, Clancie. I don't know why anyone would take DB or any other magician literally. If DB uses "real" he is using it to heighten the excitement.

This statement alone does not prove your contention, dingler.

Lurker

 

[dingler44]

I agree with you here, Clancie. I don't know why anyone would take DB or any other magician literally. If DB uses "real" he is using it to heighten the excitement.

This statement alone does not prove your contention, dingler.

Lurker

Lurker you're operating on the assumption that magic is real. DB shouldn't have to use the word "real" to heighten excitement unless people already believe magic is real/possible. So if magic is real and DB claims to use it, fine.

But it's known that DB does not use magic to perform his levitation trick.

 

[Thanz]

Lurker you're operating on the assumption that magic is real. DB shouldn't have to use the word "real" to heighten excitement unless people already believe magic is real/possible. So if magic is real and DB claims to use it, fine.

But it's known that DB does not use magic to perform his levitation trick.

It is not the assumption that magic is real. It is the assumption that David Blaine (and other magicians) like people to believe that it is real. And they do. Or at least, most perform their acts ina manner consistent with this.

David Copperfield likes people to believe that he really made the Statue of Liberty disappear. That doesn't mean he did. But he certainly claimed to have done so on the televison special.

 

[Thanz]

neo,

Do you have any comment on the lack of support for your claim about the brain?

What happens to those readings at CO that are longer than 11 minutes?

You haven't indicated that you won't answer these questions, so I will keep asking them.

But, she did answer those questions! Maybe you just didn't like the answers.

 

[CFLarsen]

It is not the assumption that magic is real. It is the assumption that David Blaine (and other magicians) like people to believe that it is real. And they do. Or at least, most perform their acts ina manner consistent with this.

Does David Blaine claim paranormal powers?

David Copperfield likes people to believe that he really made the Statue of Liberty disappear. That doesn't mean he did. But he certainly claimed to have done so on the televison special.

Does David Copperfield claim paranormal powers?

 

[dingler44]

It is not the assumption that magic is real. It is the assumption that David Blaine (and other magicians) like people to believe that it is real. And they do. Or at least, most perform their acts ina manner consistent with this.

David Copperfield likes people to believe that he really made the Statue of Liberty disappear. That doesn't mean he did. But he certainly claimed to have done so on the televison special.

You guys, Thanz, Lurker and Clancie are right. DB claims to be a magician, a conjurer for entertainment... so it is of course natural he will produce and claim his tricks as magic.

I need to take a chill pill.
(universal agreement is not necessary! )

I'm just sensitive to DB in particular after seeing his Street Magic and seeing a lot of the fools shown in the movie pointing to supernatural explanations... of which DB is of course happy to accept since it boosts his mystique. Plus DB's personal allusions to the "unexplanable." I love the illusions and sleights of hand magicians/conjurers can perform but I can't stand to see people buttress belief in the paranormal with them. And I don't find it impressive when an illusion succeeds only because of video editing.

 

[Thanz]

Does David Blaine claim paranormal powers?

Does David Copperfield claim paranormal powers?

Wholesale edit:

I think that the claims made by magicians to paranormal powers are all in the "nudge nudge, wink wink" sort of vein. Even Blaine's, although I don't know that much about him (I have seen a street magic special and parts of his pole standing stunt).

I just think that Blaine is better at the schtick than others.

 

[BillHoyt]

David Copperfield likes people to believe that he really made the Statue of Liberty disappear. That doesn't mean he did. But he certainly claimed to have done so on the televison special.

This is so incredibly disingenuous as to defy belief! Copperfield does not claim that he does other than "magic" in the sense of creating illusions to inspire awe. Here is Copperfield's website Note the header that says "An evening of grand illusion."

Cheers,

 

[Clancie]

Posted by CFLarsen

Does David Blaine claim paranormal powers?

Does David Copperfield claim paranormal powers?

Blaine's book is, imo, ambiguous about this.

Copperfield doesn't. But...with his recent comment about choosing the German lottery numbers ("it wasn't a trick"), he got a strong rebuke from Randi. He later clarified his meaning to indicate that he wasn't claiming it was paranormal, that it wasn't just an ordinary trick, and that, in fact, no disagreement with Randi existed, i.e. that he wasn't making a paranormal claim.

Nevertheless, after listening to Mark Edward talk about at some length about how he feels there's more to mentalism (at times) than can be rationally explained, I think it would be very interesting to read interviews with Blaine and Copperfield speaking about that issue, too.

 

[Thanz]

This is so incredibly disingenuous as to defy belief! Copperfield does not claim that he does other than "magic" in the sense of creating illusions to inspire awe. Here is Copperfield's website Note the header that says "An evening of grand illusion."

Come on, you know it is all part of the schtick. Does Copperfield say "I am now going ot make the S of L disappear" or does he say "I am now going to make you think that I made the S of L disappear"?

As for "This is so incredibly disingenuous as to defy belief!", I think that is saved for your logic prize.