Interesting JE Hits....

[Darat]

Correct, voidx. You mention writing, the actual act of writing, as a "physical" process. Now how is that analogous to an entirely "telepathic" process such as mediumship? Won't you at least concede that there may just be a difference between the two? I'll hold! .....neo

Well it was you who claimed that "telepathy" is a "right brain" phenomena. It is you who has claimed that it resides in the brain, I don't think any "sceptic" here has stated that these "gifts" reside in the brain, that is 100% your claim.

If this "telepathy" is a function of the brain as you have claimed it is then like writing, like listening to music, looking at a picture and so on it can be theoretically at least be measured.

This is why I asked you if you realised what huge assumptions and leaps you were making when you first made you claim. I suspect that you would like to withdraw that claim now?

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

C: You claim to hold the key to one of the most important discoveries in the world ever, and you want to keep it to yourself.

1. Braude, Stephen E. Immortal Remains: The Evidence for Life
After Death. Published: 2003. (Braude draws heavily
on Gauld but adds a great deal of new information)
In paperback is $24.95 ($75-hardcover). pp. 329.

As are all of the above. So invest fifty dollars if you are serious about your remark that MY experience is the most important discovery in the world ever and then get back to me on your ridiculous assertion.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-8754181-1848636?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Apparently it wasn't that earth-shattering. I didn't check, but I'd be willin got bet that The Late Great Planet Earth is outselling it on amazon.com.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

C: You claim to hold the key to one of the most important discoveries in the world ever, and you want to keep it to yourself.


Reply: Nonesense. While I agree that this was earth shaking for me personally, as I learned more, I came to understand that there was nothing here to merit the kind of hyperbole you use above. Before you make such statements, read the following three books. My experience is not mentioned in any of them, LOL.
It would hardly merit a wimper in Braude compared to the investigations that have taken place.

...snip...

As are all of the above. So invest fifty dollars if you are serious about your remark that MY experience is the most important discovery in the world ever and then get back to me on your ridiculous assertion.

Perhaps you should read what Claus actually said Steve? You took the time to use your non-standard quoting/atrributing method but don't seem to have read what Claus actually said.

(Edited a “Claud” to a “Claus” and without the aid of anaesthetic.)

 

[CFLarsen]

It would seem that neofight needs to learn a bit more about the brain that what she can read in the National Enquirer (emphasis mine):

Artistic behavior

One of the most interesting things about artistic production is that it seems to rely on so many brain regions that it is amazingly resilient to brain damage of different kinds.

This resiliency seems almost counter-intuitive because artistic production would certainly be considered a very complex kind of cognition.

However, it seems to be the case that so many brain regions are involved in the production of art that an artistic patient can employ many alternative cognitive strategies to overcome the limitations they face following brain injury.

Some general issues related to the neuroscience of artistic behavior:

• Artistry is like other complex cognitive processes (like executive control or language), because it requires the integration of many individual skills.
• Different brain regions carry out these individual skills.
  [*]Therefore, there is no single location in the brain that is specialized for creativity or artistry.
• Theories of creativity or artistry that argue that the RH is the only source of creative cognition or creative behavior are wrong.
• When an artist suffers from brain damage they can often continue to create artistic works, but they may have to use different strategies so that they can get around the deficits that result from the damage.

Psychology 370: Brain and Behavior
Dept. of Psychology, University of Kansas

Yet another woo-woo idea shot down by reality. Isn't science wonderful?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Please Darat, don't get involved in this. Larsen was being facetious .. I know it, you know and he knows it................
and just above he broke the agreement not to use ad hominems, not just once, but three times .........sorry, he lost that one.

He is a parody of himself. and totally predictable. I see he is now also doing brain research. He should check out the work of Lashley on memories. Nothing whatsoever to do with RH/artistic abilities, but of other interest relevant to this subject. I'll have some more brain references for him to check out later.

 

[CFLarsen]

Please Darat, don't get involved in this. Larsen was being facetious .. I know it, you know and he knows it................

No, I was not. Now, please address what I actually wrote.

Darat can get involved all he likes. If you want to address me privately, please do so via email or PM.

and just above he broke the agreement not to use ad hominems, not just once, but three times .........sorry, he lost that one.

What "agreement" is that, Steve?

Where do I use ad hominem in my post? Showing that the three of you lie is ad hominem? No, Steve. That's presenting the facts.

He is a parody of himself. and totally predictable. I see he is now also doing brain research. He should check out the work of Lashley on memories. Nothing whatsoever to do with RH/artistic abilities, but of other interest relevant to this subject. I'll have some more brain references for him to check out later.

I am not doing brain research. It took a few seconds to find evidence that neofight was wrong, that's all.

If your reference has nothing to do with artistic abilities, why do you refer to it?

 

[Darat]

Please Darat, don't get involved in this. Larsen was being facetious .. I know it, you know and he knows it................
and just above he broke the agreement not to use ad hominems, not just once, but three times .........sorry, he lost that one.

He is a parody of himself. and totally predictable. I see he is now also doing brain research. He should check out the work of Lashley on memories. Nothing whatsoever to do with RH/artistic abilities, but of other interest relevant to this subject. I'll have some more brain references for him to check out later.

The reason I "involve" myself in this is quite simple i.e. you made a mistake.

Claus did not say the he said one of the most important discoveries. Whether he was being facetious or not you made an argument against something he didn't say, classic strawman.

It is a very significant difference or do you hold the opinion that proof of "life-after-death" wouldn't be momentous and one the most significant discoveries ever made by humans?

 

[Instig8R]

Instig8R, you are not claiming that the LKL transcript you just posted proves that JE gets names clairvoyantly, are you?

Hi, Neo- If JE doesn't get names clairvoyantly, why does he use the word "seeing" in the LKL transcript? Again, here is the quote:

"I'm SEEING this as being somebody who has got another name like yours, there has got to be another L-connection that comes up round you, that has got to be L- tied to this."

As for data other than names, I never said that JE gets those messages clairaudiently. Most of his messages come through in symbols. In his own estimation, however, I have heard him say many times that he feels his strong suit is clairaudience. Why do you have such a hard time with that? Shouldn't he have a better idea than anyone else what he feels is his greater ability?...neo

Neo, you may choose to believe JE when he says that his strong suit is clairaudience. You seem to have no problem going along with whatever he says.

In response to your suggestion that he should have a better idea than anyone else about what he considers his greatest ability, I disagree very strongly with any such notion. The proof is in the results. In the case of the LKL transcript that I posted above, JE got everything ALL wrong, regardless of whether he saw, heard or felt the messages! Here is renata's breakdown of the reading:

Sitter tells JE she wants to connect with father or grandparents

Guesses (some repeated several times):
Sister figure (miss)
Lname (miss)
female type of cancer (miss)
R connection (miss)
August connection (miss)
8 connection (miss)
father in law (miss)
another father figure (weak hit)

Overall impression:badgering the listener to write things down, repeating same guesses.

Score: 8 guesses, one weak hit, 7 misses


IMO, JE claims to receive messages by whatever method yields the most excuses for the misses. You were so busy wondering how he got the messages... you didn't even notice that the messages were wrong.

 

[Instig8R]

Instig8R, You are wrong about my not noticing these things. I am quite certain of what I am talking about. While it's true that you can't really tell from the transcript how JE is getting letters, through clairaudience or clairvoyance, neither can you tell for sure simply from watching the video.

Now going by this reading alone, I'm going to have to challenge your assertion that every single time JE traces a letter in the air, it signifies with absolute certainty that he was seeing the letter as opposed to hearing it.

As you can see, "R" is not the first name-related thing that JE said here. Before he indicated the letter "R", he first came up with the names "Rudy" and "Rudolph". Two names beginning with an "R", each of two syllables. I think it's fairly obvious that he is *hearing* this name telepathically.

Notice that he did not say "Ray" or "Rick" or "Rob". He heard the name, not too clearly, as is most often the case, but knew that it was not a short, one syllable word. He knew it began with an "R" and was of two syllables. As it turned out, the name was "Raoul", a two-syllable name beginning with an "R".

Neo, don't you find it strange that JE goes through all of this "R" nonsense with clairaudience, when he can so easily see the letters "AMA" (against medical advice)? Why do you suppose he chooses to receive names by clairaudience, when the spirits can actually show him letters?

In other words, why don't the spirits show initials to JE? It would be so much easier to identify people with their initials... and it would remove all that wiggle-room that JE relies upon in his act.

Instig8R, I don't know how you can possibly say that he appears to be uncommitted to a particular method. What are you, a mind-reader? lol The Ellen/Helen issue he has spoken about more than once. In both of those names, the "L" sound is prevalent, so he has pointed out that he most definitely would not get the "Ellen" as an "E" name. But he does get the name clairaudiently, which is exactly the reason he gets them mixed up.

If anything, this to me is proof positive that he does not just see a letter, Instig8R. He gets the sound, just as he has always said he does. If he did, indeed, get the first letter by seeing the image of the letter clairvoyantly, then he would know darned well that the name "Helen" begins with an "H", and the name "Ellen" begins with an "E", and he would never again have to be ambiguous about those two names again.

He confuses them precisely because he hears them. Not because he sees them. Thank you for making my point for me so very nicely. .....neo

Omigod! El, L, Ellen, Helen... I'm having flashbacks to the 1960's... I am experiencing clairaudience!!! It's "The Name Game"--

The name game!

Shirley!
Shirley, Shirley bo Birley Bonana fanna fo Firley
Fee fy mo Mirley, Shirley!

Lincoln!
Lincoln, Lincoln bo Bincoln Bonana fanna fo Fincoln
Fee fy mo Mincoln, Lincoln!

ROFLMAO!

 

[SteveGrenard]

DARAT: Claus did not say the he said one of the most important discoveries. Whether he was being facetious or not you made an argument against something he didn't say, classic strawman.


Reply: Why don't you address his ad hominem attacks if you are going to address articles of speech. LOL ... you guys are a trip. I can only conclude that you are adding more facetiousness on top of his. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Darat]

DARAT: Claus did not say the he said one of the most important discoveries. Whether he was being facetious or not you made an argument against something he didn't say, classic strawman.


Reply: Why don't you address his ad hominem attacks if you are going to address articles of speech. LOL ... you guys are a trip. I can only conclude that you are adding more facetiousness on top of his. Thanks for the laugh.

This is what Claus posted:

(Bold & underline by me)

...snip...

You claim to hold the key to one of the most important discoveries in the world ever, and you want to keep it to yourself.

...snip...

This is what you posted:

(Bold & underline by me)

...snip...

So invest fifty dollars if you are serious about your remark that MY experience is the most important discovery in the world ever and then get back to me on your ridiculous assertion.

...snip...

The facts are very clear, Claus never made the claim that you assert he did.


(Edited for formating.)

 

[voidx]

Posted by Neofight:

As you can see, "R" is not the first name-related thing that JE said here. Before he indicated the letter "R", he first came up with the names "Rudy" and "Rudolph". Two names beginning with an "R", each of two syllables. I think it's fairly obvious that he is *hearing* this name telepathically.

Notice that he did not say "Ray" or "Rick" or "Rob". He heard the name, not too clearly, as is most often the case, but knew that it was not a short, one syllable word. He knew it began with an "R" and was of two syllables. As it turned out, the name was "Raoul", a two-syllable name beginning with an "R".

Heh wow, I'm really at a loss for this one. He hears it, 2 syllables starting with R, like Rudy or Rudolph. Ok I'll bite, those names sound similiar. But what does it turn out that the name is? Damned Raoul!!!! Which sounds nothing like Rudy or Rudolph. Heh come on, bad mind connection is one thing, being half deaf is quite another.

Posted by MRC_Hans:

This truly amazes me. We have now seen all these transcripts where JE obviously is fishing for information, and with a big net. Neo, the reason he is not sure if it is Helen or Ellen is because this gives twice the scope for hits. I am really surprised that people can fall for this repeatedly. I can understand if some are caught by the moment, I know that dazzled feeling of "Hey! This is a miracle!", but the day after, when coolly examining the facts, it becomes clear that we are in the entertaining business.

Excellent point Hans. Would the supporters of JE not now acknowledge that in these LKL transcripts JE is actively fishing for information in classic cold-reading style? Just sit down and read them objectively, go back and read Renata's posted LKL transcripts and then explain to me how it is that JE is NOT tossing out information, that he is not seizing upone an ok, or a positive response from the caller. You cannot deny that he quickly tosses out a big barrage of information, and then asks the sitter, "Does any of that make sense to you?". How is that not cold-reading?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Well actually Darat I didnt claim anything. However I agree we should elect you chief claim's examiner so we are careful that nobody makes claims about claims which are not claimable.

 

[c0rbin]

so we are careful that nobody makes claims about claims which are not claimable.

Too late.

People make claims up and down the para-whatever world...then slowly back away.

 

[Darat]

Well actually Darat I didnt claim anything. However I agree we should elect you chief claim's examiner so we are careful that nobody makes claims about claims which are not claimable.

I did not say you claimed anything.

I have merely commented that the evidence is clear for anyone to see that you attributed a statement to Claus that he did not make and then argued against it.

This represents a “strawman argument”,. i.e. when a person misrepresents the opposing argument then attacks the misrepresentation.

The evidence is:

Claus posted:

(Bold & underline by me)

...snip...

You claim to hold the key to one of the most important discoveries in the world ever, and you want to keep it to yourself.

...snip...

You replied with:

(Bold & underline by me)

...snip...

So invest fifty dollars if you are serious about your remark that MY experience is the most important discovery in the world ever and then get back to me on your ridiculous assertion.

...snip...

You misrepresented what Claus said.
You attack the misrepresentation by stating it is a “ridiculous assertion”.
Your argument was a “strawman” argument.

(Edited for format.)

 

[dingler44]

As you can see, "R" is not the first name-related thing that JE said here. Before he indicated the letter "R", he first came up with the names "Rudy" and "Rudolph". Two names beginning with an "R", each of two syllables. I think it's fairly obvious that he is *hearing* this name telepathically.

No, it's not obvious. Knowing the twisted functioning of JE's brain is anything but obvious.

Instig8R, I don't know how you can possibly say that he appears to be uncommitted to a particular method. What are you, a mind-reader? lol

Neo, if anyone around here thinks they can read JE's mind, it's you.

If anything, this to me is proof positive that he does not just see a letter, Instig8R. He gets the sound, just as he has always said he does. If he did, indeed, get the first letter by seeing the image of the letter clairvoyantly, then he would know darned well that the name "Helen" begins with an "H", and the name "Ellen" begins with an "E", and he would never again have to be ambiguous about those two names again.

If this is proof to you... it is indeed a sad day for logic and reason.

He confuses them precisely because he hears them. Not because he sees them. Thank you for making my point for me so very nicely. .....neo

Welcome to Bizzaro World... where Neo can make anything possible.

 

[neofight]

This truly amazes me. We have now seen all these transcripts where JE obviously is fishing for information, and with a big net. Neo, the reason he is not sure if it is Helen or Ellen is because this gives twice the scope for hits. I am really surprised that people can fall for this repeatedly. I can understand if some are caught by the moment, I know that dazzled feeling of "Hey! This is a miracle!", but the day after, when coolly examining the facts, it becomes clear that we are in the entertaining business.

Hans

Hans, with all due respect, you dismiss this stuff way too easily. Those of us who seriously consider the possibility of it being real are not caught up in the moment. We have studied the whole issue very closely, very calmly, and we are not imbeciles.

You can say that at this time there is no conclusive scientific proof that there is anything to mediumship, but that is very different from saying that there is no reason to entertain the idea that there is something to it, because there are plenty of unexplained things going on here.

Those who cannot at least admit, even to themselves, that they have never seen an admitted cold-reader replicate what JE does, have a real problem with objectivity, imho.......neo

 

[voidx]

Hans, with all due respect, you dismiss this stuff way too easily. Those of us who seriously consider the possibility of it being real are not caught up in the moment. We have studied the whole issue very closely, very calmly, and we are not imbeciles.

You can say that at this time there is no conclusive scientific proof that there is anything to mediumship, but that is very different from saying that there is no reason to entertain the idea that there is something to it, because there are plenty of unexplained things going on here.

Those who cannot at least admit, even to themselves, that they have never seen an admitted cold-reader replicate what JE does, have a real problem with objectivity, imho.......neo

If you're about done, would you like to address the actual bulk of Hans post? That being that all the LKL transcripts being posted here fit quite well within the confines of cold-reading. Or also the clear fact that JE is fishing for information. To mirror you're sentiment, those that cannot admit to themselves that JE is fishing for information in these particular transcripts, and that what he's doing looks amazingly like cold-reading, also have a problem with objectivity.

 

[CFLarsen]

neo,

Do you have any comment on the lack of support for your claim about the brain?

What happens to those readings at CO that are longer than 11 minutes?

Just let me know if you don't want to answer these questions, neo, and I'll stop asking them.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

Those who cannot at least admit, even to themselves, that they have never seen an admitted cold-reader replicate what JE does, have a real problem with objectivity, imho.......neo

Sorry but this doesn't make sense to me, do what that JE does?

I've seen sessions of cold-readings where the sitters have stated that the reader must be "psychic" because they were “so accurate”, even when the reader claimed no such power...

Sure I've only seen people who claim to have the power that JE does perform a similar act, for instance Colin Fry, but then what would be the point of a whole show of doing that type of act for a mentalist?! It’s a one shot demonstration, after that it has no entertainment value…

I've seen acts where they have told people their PIN number, where they have "read someones" mind and knew what card they had chosen, what word they'd wrote down from a magazine and kept hidden, where items have appeared in their pockets etc...

Neo – have you ever considered that all the magicians in the world are part of a secret conspiracy and in fact do have “superpowers” that let them catch a bullet in their teeth, duplicate a drawing that they couldn’t see being drawn, know what my PIN is by reading my mind. Of course you haven’t, yet for some reason you just can’t seem to see that JE does nothing different from these people, apart from he tells us he has a superpower.