Interesting JE Hits....

[neofight]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Loki
You've now clarified that you meant episode, not reading. Okay. Was it "fairly obvious" that you meant episode? If it was, I got it wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, I meant the reading that was within the episode. lol 30 minutes total, just dealing with one sitter, or one family.

neofight does not say that she was wrong. She asks for "mediators" and tries to circumvent the fact that she has made a blunder.

I have no idea why she just doesn't say that she was wrong. But that is her choice, and we have to work from that.

Claus, when I make a mistake, I own up to it immediately. I admitted that my quote obviously did not say want I had wanted to express. It was not written well. So sue me.

But for you to try to make this into an issue of dishonesty on my part, is only what I've come to expect from you. I'll tell you what, Mr. Larsen. I'll put my record of honesty and integrity up against yours, any time.

neofight said that a reading with one person or family could take 30 minutes.

Yes. Within the confines of one "CO" show. How would I possibly know exactly how much time that reading had taken at the taping? As someone else pointed out, I wasn't there. I've never attended a "CO" taping.

Readings at seminars, which I have witnessed in person, have greatly varied in length one from another. Some are quite brief, others longer. If one of them is particularly long, and the seminar is taped, there is a chance that a future "CO" show might consist solely of that one lengthy reading, which was my only point.

BTW, you found my "30 minute" quote with no trouble. Was that from this thread, do you remember.....neo

 

[neofight]

No. There was no need for "clarification". Your post was very clear. One reading could take up 30 minutes.

But, after you discovered that your claim would get you - and JE - in trouble, you now say that you have "clarified" it.

OK, OK. Fine, then. I fully accept that you are now backtracking wildly.

Now, this raises a few, very important questions:

If a reading during the taping of CO takes 30 minutes, then what? That never happens? How do you know? In fact, we do know that this happens: Steve Grenard has told us so.

So, what happens to those readings that take more than 11 minutes?

The more, basic question is:

Can we ever trust anything you say, ever again? Aren't we in a situation where we have to believe you right up until the moment where you are caught in a terrible predicament like this one?

These are two very fair and important questions.

No they're not, Claus. And the only really important question here is why are you always such a horse's @$$? ......neo

 

[SteveGrenard]

d44: Would you be willing to start a new thread with a subset of these 196 discrete facts Camille gave you?

To what purpose? The skeptics would say it is ALL anecdotal and they would be right; the so-called believers have no problem accepting this already. I am not done with mediums yet so I am also not interested in revealing this much really hard to come by information in a public forum where any fraudulent medium or cold reader can use it. Some of it is also highly personal. I have given a few snippets but not all.


If you are interested just in the catgeories of information given, they are quite simple and Iwould be happy go over my database and recategorize the subject areas if this would be of any
interest: like, for example the name of the cemetary where he is and the section within the cemetary which was changed and both areas were given, one as being changed and he liked the
first one better. Nobody but myself and the plot manager at the cemetary knew about the change and why. He named both sections but I wont give that out publicly either. The presence of people who pre-deceased him, animals given specifically and by name, descirption and breed, people, given by name and relation, who even died decades before he was born is not the kind of material we see on JE any given night with this kind of specificity. There was no above, below or to the side stuff. No symbology. No magic numbers. No questions from the medium. Frankly I sit here and listen to all these perfectly logical arguments made by the skeptics including, believe it or not, Larsen, about JE and other questionnable mediums and I still don't get it where a deep trance medium is concerned. Nobody can answer how such a medium, without asking a single question, can give that kind of information in the first person. Sorry.

 

[SteveGrenard]

C: If a reading during the taping of CO takes 30 minutes, then what? That never happens? How do you know? In fact, we do know that this happens: Steve Grenard has told us so.


I never said a reading takes 30 minutes. Some readings can take 30 minutes. Some can take 10. One example I gave lasted 45 minutes and was mostly silence as an obviousy embarassed sitter refused to answer, just making muffled denials with her hand in front of her face. Clearly she didnt want to be there or at least caught there on camera. Hey, did Mrs. Crowunit ever teach piano? Shavelson clearly stated that they never know how many readings and how many shows they can carve out of one four hour session. Also deduct 46 minutes for warm-up prelims, Q&A, a JE video on big screen, water breaks, several at about 10 mins each and two or three 2-minute make-up touchups. Oh, in that four hours, they introduced their social worker who said a few words and invited anyone who thought they would benefit from speaking to her about counseling to let a PA know and she would talk to them privately. There was a lot of stuff going on in the whole 4 hours we were there in addition to the readings. They even had a win a free CO T-shirt contest. I thought what a waste of time but I guess some people love that kind of stuff. It just seemed cheesy to our group.

 

[dingler44]

d44: Would you be willing to start a new thread with a subset of these 196 discrete facts Camille gave you?

To what purpose? The skeptics would say it is ALL anecdotal and they would be right; the so-called believers have no problem accepting this already. I am not done with mediums yet so I am also not interested in revealing this much really hard to come by information in a public forum where any fraudulent medium or cold reader can use it. Some of it is also highly personal. I have given a few snippets but not all.

never mind

 

[CFLarsen]

Actually, I meant the reading that was within the episode. lol 30 minutes total, just dealing with one sitter, or one family.

Yes, now. When you were caught. Question is, would you ever have 'fessed up, had you not been caught?

Claus, when I make a mistake, I own up to it immediately.

This is not correct. You tried to explain this away, until you realized that it was impossible.

I admitted that my quote obviously did not say want I had wanted to express. It was not written well. So sue me.

I'm not going to "sue" you. I am merely pointing out that you are unreliable. You are not to be trusted. You lie, you cheat, you obfuscate. The list is long, but distinguished.

But for you to try to make this into an issue of dishonesty on my part, is only what I've come to expect from you. I'll tell you what, Mr. Larsen. I'll put my record of honesty and integrity up against yours, any time.

Sure! Go ahead! Just remember, that it takes evidence to do so! Which is why you will run away, yet again.

Yes. Within the confines of one "CO" show. How would I possibly know exactly how much time that reading had taken at the taping? As someone else pointed out, I wasn't there. I've never attended a "CO" taping.

Whoa...! So how do you know what goes on at the tapings at all? We now have to dismiss any post you make regarding the tapings, because you have admitted that you do not know anything about what goes on there.

Readings at seminars, which I have witnessed in person, have greatly varied in length one from another. Some are quite brief, others longer. If one of them is particularly long, and the seminar is taped, there is a chance that a future "CO" show might consist solely of that one lengthy reading, which was my only point.

But what happens if the reading is longer than 11 minutes? We know this happens, yet you have avoided this question like the plague.

BTW, you found my "30 minute" quote with no trouble. Was that from this thread, do you remember.....neo

Yes. All it takes is one simple search. You didn't bother. You want others to find your own posts.

You are one seriously confused individual, neo.

No they're not, Claus. And the only really important question here is why are you always such a horse's @$$? ......neo

Yes, they are very fair. And I am not a "horses a$$" because I point out that you post something that does not hold water.

What happens to those readings at CO that are longer than 11 minutes, neo?

 

[CFLarsen]

Steve,

It doesn't hold water.

You claim to have encountered a medium that is 100% correct.

You claim that there is no way this medium could have cheated.

You claim to approach this subject in a scientific manner.

And you refuse to let other people see the data?? What kind of researcher are you? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Your reputation is shot, Steve. Not just by your previous lies, misrepresentations, bad experiments, etc., but this is the final nail.

You claim to hold the key to one of the most important discoveries in the world ever, and you want to keep it to yourself.

Pah.

I never said a reading takes 30 minutes.

Nobody claimed you did. I said "if a reading". Stop misrepresenting what people post, Steve.

Also deduct 46 minutes for warm-up prelims, Q&A, a JE video on big screen, water breaks, several at about 10 mins each and two or three 2-minute make-up touchups. Oh, in that four hours, they introduced their social worker who said a few words and invited anyone who thought they would benefit from speaking to her about counseling to let a PA know and she would talk to them privately. There was a lot of stuff going on in the whole 4 hours we were there in addition to the readings. They even had a win a free CO T-shirt contest. I thought what a waste of time but I guess some people love that kind of stuff. It just seemed cheesy to our group.

It's late now here, but I will follow up on this tomorrow (well, later today!).

 

[SteveGrenard]

C: And you refuse to let other people see the data?? What kind of researcher are you? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

I wasn't researching anything formally. I expect people to take this any way they want to. If someone else told me these things I would say okay, but its anecdotal. So would you. And you'd be correct. This was not a controlled experiment. Athough I knew I was anonymous to the medium and more than half of the facts were un-findable in any public database and I knew she asked no questions, just fell asleep and talked in the first person for 2 hours, this had no corroboration and it was not scientific research nor was it intended to be. It was personal experience. Take it or leave it or, better yet, try it yourself. Like ice cream.

C: Your reputation is shot, Steve. Not just by your previous lies, misrepresentations, bad experiments, etc., but this is the final nail.

Reply: Again, this was not an experiment. Hah. Couldn't hold onto those ad hominems could you? I knew you'd break sooner or later. You have no self control. Why are you so solicitous of my reputation? I strongly question that tactic for its underlying motivation.

C: You claim to hold the key to one of the most important discoveries in the world ever, and you want to keep it to yourself.


Reply: Nonesense. While I agree that this was earth shaking for me personally, as I learned more, I came to understand that there was nothing here to merit the kind of hyperbole you use above. Before you make such statements, read the following three books. My experience is not mentioned in any of them, LOL.
It would hardly merit a wimper in Braude compared to the investigations that have taken place.

1. Braude, Stephen E. Immortal Remains: The Evidence for Life
After Death. Published: 2003. (Braude draws heavily
on Gauld but adds a great deal of new information)
In paperback is $24.95 ($75-hardcover). pp. 329.

2. Gauld, Alan : Mediumship and Survival: A Century of
Investigations. 1983. . Available from many sites used or
like new for as little as five dollars.pp. 287

and the grand-daddy of them all, the source, without which the above two texts would not have been likely:

3. Myers, F.W.H. Human Personality and Its Survival of Bodily
Death. Foreword by Aldous Huxley. Introduction by
Dr. Jeffrey Mishlove and Preface by Susy Smith.
pp. 352.
Originally published 1903 but reprinted at low cost
($16.95) in 2001 and available at amazon, b&n etc.

As are all of the above. So invest fifty dollars if you are serious about your remark that MY experience is the most important discovery in the world ever and then get back to me on your ridiculous assertion.

 

[Clancie]

Claus...Setting A New Record!....

Posted by CFLarsen

(to neo)

I am merely pointing out that you are unreliable. You are not to be trusted. You lie, you cheat, you obfuscate.

(to Steve)

Your reputation is shot, Steve. Not just by your previous lies, misrepresentations, bad experiments, etc., but this is the final nail.

(to Clancie)

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

Claus,

You've called all of us liars many times before. But this is the first time ever in the same thread.


And, no, neo, we all know he's never interested in clarification (despite the frequent need for it when we're all just typing back and forth to share ideas).

He never checks for clarification before going on the attack, doesn't like clarification when he sees it, and never accepts it when its clearly stated for him.....

 

[Instig8R]

When I heard JE making frequent references to AMA, he would always explain how it meant going against medical advice such as refusing a certain treatment or procedure, etc., but I never put it together (Let's hear a big "DUH" here) that AMA was the acronym for just that...."against medical advice".

No problem, Neo! It happens to the best of us.

Are we at least in agreement that JE is perfectly capable to seeing letters? (I'm sure we are still in disagreement over why he doesn't do it more often!)

 

[Jeff Corey]

He's good at seeing $$$, too. I heard from a real estate agent that he sold his modest ranch on Little Plains Court in Huntington to move to something more palatial in a "better" neighborhood. (warning: anecdote, no proof)
Location, location, location.

 

[neofight]

No problem, Neo! It happens to the best of us.

Are we at least in agreement that JE is perfectly capable to seeing letters? (I'm sure we are still in disagreement over why he doesn't do it more often!)

Come on now, Instig8R. We were always in agreement on that point. I have agreed with RC (and you) from the beginning of this discussion that JE has occasionally referred to a letter that he seemed to be seeing, e.g. the "T" that kept getting larger and larger, and the "JO" that he *saw* over that woman's head, and the AMA symbol, etc.

I have seen him trace a letter in the air, I just strongly disagree with you that it happens on any kind of a regular basis, and I maintain that it's definitely extremely rare for that to happen when the spirit is giving John names. It's just not the normal way in which he gets them. ......neo

 

[neofight]

Claus...Setting A New Record!....


Claus,

You've called all of us liars many times before. But this is the first time ever in the same thread.


And, no, neo, we all know he's never interested in clarification (despite the frequent need for it when we're all just typing back and forth to share ideas).

He never checks for clarification before going on the attack, doesn't like clarification when he sees it, and never accepts it when its clearly stated for him..... [/B]

Yes, Clancie. Mr. Larsen has certainly outdone himself tonight. lol As long as he realizes that he has long ago become a parody of himself. Oh, he doesn't realize that? I guess he doesn't. I truly think he's losing it. ....neo

 

[thaiboxerken]

Let's pretend that Claus hasn't called you a liar. Now, why haven't you woo woos produced a superbeing to beat the JREF challenge? Why hasn't a superbeing been validated by the scientific community?

I know the answer, but I suspect you'll come up with excuses.

 

[Instig8R]

I have seen him trace a letter in the air, I just strongly disagree with you that it happens on any kind of a regular basis, and I maintain that it's definitely extremely rare for that to happen when the spirit is giving John names. It's just not the normal way in which he gets them. ......neo

neo, I believe you are not noticing how frequently these visual references to letters are showing up in JE's readings. The transcripts do not always divulge them. For example, I checked the "Malibu Shrimp" transcript, because I remembered JE air-writing an "R" letter. The transcript reads as follows:

"John: Okay, she's also making me feel like I've got the father figure, the grandfather, coming through, and that there's a connection to Rudy, or Rudolph, or somebody with a red nose, but there's like an "R" connection. I don't know (pointing at the daughter and boyfriend/husband) who else you guys are with, but I feel like I'm in this area, over here. I got the older male who's coming through like Dad, there's an "R" connection that comes up. It's gotta be over here. Who are you guys with? Are you guys together?"

Note that there is no reference to HOW he is supposedly getting that R-connection. I guess you would have claimed that it was clairaudient, based on the position that you have already expressed.

Well, I remembered that JE air-wrote the letter "R" with his finger, so I re-watched the video, and I was correct: JE wrote the "R" with his index finger on his imaginery blackboard.

JE may state in his books that he usually gets names, parts of names and letters by hearing them. However, the reality is that he appears to be uncommitted to any particular method. Overall, he appears to be more visually oriented in his speech pattern. As for his approach to names, it is often vague and follows this form:

"I'm supposed to talk to you about Ellen or Helen. So I don't know if that's who she's with, but there is an Ellen or a Helen type name, it's an L name with a vowel in front of it who's also passed?"

Since he messes up the names so frequently, he merely pretends that it is because he can only hear names and it is like having a bad phone connection.

 

[Instig8R]

I have seen him trace a letter in the air, I just strongly disagree with you that it happens on any kind of a regular basis, and I maintain that it's definitely extremely rare for that to happen when the spirit is giving John names. It's just not the normal way in which he gets them. ......neo

Hmmm... Here is the first of the LKL readings that JE did on 9/10/01, with the method of transmission (seeing-hearing-feeling) underlined:


KING: We are back with John Edward. We will start including your phone calls. West Bloomfield, Michigan. Hello.
CALLER: Hello.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: Yes, I would like to ask John what he can tell me about my father or my grandfather or even my grandmother who passed away.
EDWARD: What's your first name?
CALLER: My first name is Lisa.
EDWARD: Lisa, besides the people that you talked about, if -- I want to let you know that I might not be able to connect with them. I might connect with other people. If you again just say yes or no, don't say anything else.
The first thing to tell you is -- I know didn't you ask about this -- but they TELL me to acknowledge a female figure that I would SEE as being like a contemporary to you, whether it be like a sister or a cousin but it's a female person that passed. I'm SEEING this as being somebody who has got another name like yours, there has got to be another L-connection that comes up round you, that has got to be L- tied to this. I FEEL that this person passes either from breast cancer or a female type of cancer in some way.
OK, that's No. 1. That's the first thing I'm being SHOWN. I know this would be like a cousin on your dad's side of the family, or a cousin through the male, like your husband's side of the family. But there is a connection through a male from what are they SHOWING me. And they're also TALKING about somebody who would be known as either Richard or Rich, because a big R-connection that comes up connected to you. Do you understand that? Where is the August connection for you? Somebody passed in August?
CALLER: August? No.
EDWARD: There is. There's either an anniversary on the eighth of a month or an anniversary in the eight month, August. But there is an eight connection, from what are they SHOWING me.
CALLER: Eight connection.
EDWARD: Is there a father-in-law also who has passed?
CALLER: No.
EDWARD: Then you've got another father figure besides yours.
CALLER: We do, OK.
EDWARD: There's like another male figure that I would SEE as being above you, like a father, whether it be an uncle. It's not a grandfather, it's like a father figure. There is an eight-connection, like the eighth month August or the eighth of a month. There's a connection to a young female figure to your side that I would SEE as being like a sister, or a friend that is passed from female a female type of cancer. That is what's coming through to me.
KING: Does any of that ring a bell?
CALLER: No. I don't know.
EDWARD: Write it down exactly as I said it.
KING: You were wrong? Or...
EDWARD: Absolutely. Absolutely could be that I was wrong.
KING: Cross-connections.
EDWARD: It could be totally that I was misinterpreting.


Uh, neo, what is it you were saying about the normal way that JE receives messages, especially names? Clairaudience?

 

[neofight]

neo, I believe you are not noticing how frequently these visual references to letters are showing up in JE's readings. The transcripts do not always divulge them. For example, I checked the "Malibu Shrimp" transcript, because I remembered JE air-writing an "R" letter. The transcript reads as follows:

"John: Okay, she's also making me feel like I've got the father figure, the grandfather, coming through, and that there's a connection to Rudy, or Rudolph, or somebody with a red nose, but there's like an "R" connection. I don't know (pointing at the daughter and boyfriend/husband) who else you guys are with, but I feel like I'm in this area, over here. I got the older male who's coming through like Dad, there's an "R" connection that comes up. It's gotta be over here. Who are you guys with? Are you guys together?"

Note that there is no reference to HOW he is supposedly getting that R-connection. I guess you would have claimed that it was clairaudient, based on the position that you have already expressed.

Well, I remembered that JE air-wrote the letter "R" with his finger, so I re-watched the video, and I was correct: JE wrote the "R" with his index finger on his imaginery blackboard.

Instig8R, You are wrong about my not noticing these things. I am quite certain of what I am talking about. While it's true that you can't really tell from the transcript how JE is getting letters, through clairaudience or clairvoyance, neither can you tell for sure simply from watching the video.

Now going by this reading alone, I'm going to have to challenge your assertion that every single time JE traces a letter in the air, it signifies with absolute certainty that he was seeing the letter as opposed to hearing it.

As you can see, "R" is not the first name-related thing that JE said here. Before he indicated the letter "R", he first came up with the names "Rudy" and "Rudolph". Two names beginning with an "R", each of two syllables. I think it's fairly obvious that he is *hearing* this name telepathically.

Notice that he did not say "Ray" or "Rick" or "Rob". He heard the name, not too clearly, as is most often the case, but knew that it was not a short, one syllable word. He knew it began with an "R" and was of two syllables. As it turned out, the name was "Raoul", a two-syllable name beginning with an "R".

JE may state in his books that he usually gets names, parts of names and letters by hearing them. However, the reality is that he appears to be uncommitted to any particular method. Overall, he appears to be more visually oriented in his speech pattern. As for his approach to names, it is often vague and follows this form:

"I'm supposed to talk to you about Ellen or Helen. So I don't know if that's who she's with, but there is an Ellen or a Helen type name, it's an L name with a vowel in front of it who's also passed?"

Instig8R, I don't know how you can possibly say that he appears to be uncommitted to a particular method. What are you, a mind-reader? lol The Ellen/Helen issue he has spoken about more than once. In both of those names, the "L" sound is prevalent, so he has pointed out that he most definitely would not get the "Ellen" as an "E" name. But he does get the name clairaudiently, which is exactly the reason he gets them mixed up.

If anything, this to me is proof positive that he does not just see a letter, Instig8R. He gets the sound, just as he has always said he does. If he did, indeed, get the first letter by seeing the image of the letter clairvoyantly, then he would know darned well that the name "Helen" begins with an "H", and the name "Ellen" begins with an "E", and he would never again have to be ambiguous about those two names again.

He confuses them precisely because he hears them. Not because he sees them. Thank you for making my point for me so very nicely. .....neo

 

[neofight]

[B
Uh, neo, what is it you were saying about the normal way that JE receives messages, especially names? Clairaudience? [/B]

Instig8R, you are not claiming that the LKL transcript you just posted proves that JE gets names clairvoyantly, are you?

As for data other than names, I never said that JE gets those messages clairaudiently. Most of his messages come through in symbols. In his own estimation, however, I have heard him say many times that he feels his strong suit is clairaudience. Why do you have such a hard time with that? Shouldn't he have a better idea than anyone else what he feels is his greater ability?...neo

 

[MRC_Hans]

This truly amazes me. We have now seen all these transcripts where JE obviously is fishing for information, and with a big net. Neo, the reason he is not sure if it is Helen or Ellen is because this gives twice the scope for hits. I am really surprised that people can fall for this repeatedly. I can understand if some are caught by the moment, I know that dazzled feeling of "Hey! This is a miracle!", but the day after, when coolly examining the facts, it becomes clear that we are in the entertaining business.

Hans

 

[CFLarsen]

You've called all of us liars many times before. But this is the first time ever in the same thread.

I notice that you do nothing to counter it.

And, no, neo, we all know he's never interested in clarification (despite the frequent need for it when we're all just typing back and forth to share ideas).

He never checks for clarification before going on the attack, doesn't like clarification when he sees it, and never accepts it when its clearly stated for him.....

Now, this is not correct. Tsk, tsk....