Interesting JE Hits....

[Instig8R]

The fact is, Renata did a great analysis of JE right here in this thread and that analysis is not getting more credit. To me, it shows exactly what JE is and what he does: a cold reader who makes a lot of money out of pretending the dead talk to him.

Whether he fools people knowingly, or whether he truly believes he has some kind of gift, doesn't matter. None of it can be shown to be anything but cold reading, well done for sure, but nothing psychic at all.

You are correct, buki-- The side issues have dissolved into utter nonsense. renata did an excellent job in tabulating these unedited readings. IMO, the raw figures that she compiled have revealed JE to be even worse than I thought he was. The occasional hits that he manages to eke out of these exchanges appear even more meager, when compared to how many guesses actually accompany each hit. It truly is a case of JE firing shots, and the sitter draws the bullseye around them.

Great job, renata!

 

[Loki]

buki,

The fact is, Renata did a great analysis of JE right here in this thread and that analysis is not getting more credit.

I agree - well done Renata (and I should have mentioned that sooner!)

To me, it shows exactly what JE is and what he does:...

Again, I agree - but Neo (and Clancie?) have argued that the LKL transcripts are from a "type" of reading "environment" in which JE could be expected to have some difficulties (short on time, caller not able to hear properly, etc). The biggest problem I have with this rationalisation (apart from it's convenience!) is that I haven't heard JE himself offer this excuse! And if he can't really do readings on the phone on national TV, why does he try? Perhaps because it boosts his public profile??

I've noticed that all too often, people get caught up in minor details that really aren't that important.

One of whom might be Claus??

 

[Ceinwyn]

From what I have observed, JE only does well when JE controls the circumstances, ie his own show, editing, etc. When he's on someone else's show, such as Larry King, he is woefully inadequate.

Which is why I'm so saddened when I find that some people still believe that he is actually communicating with the dead. I know horses wear blinders, but I didn't think that was a human requirement.


edit to add:

Loki said "One of whom might be Claus??"

Claus does what he does. I respect his position and I neither endorse nor vilify it. He's Claus and I'm not. Okay?

 

[renata]

Thanks, guys!
I analyzed (very roughly) all three JE LKL readings on another thread. Interesting stuff

http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24032

 

[CFLarsen]

Loki,

Ah, I see where you went wrong!

You are assuming that I am the one arguing the point. I'm not: Clancie says that this business of a woman felling trees is unique: It's a woman, it's New York. Ergo, very good hit. However, if tree felling was so rare, how would JE know about it?

But it's a minor point anyway....trees are felled in NY, and by women, too. Hey, don't tell the women of NY what they can or can¨'t do! You'd lose your balls with a swift kick, buddy!

And I agree with Instig8r: Not all trees have to be giant redwoods to be felled. Just a 5-foot tree can be in the way.

Usually of cars!

 

[CFLarsen]

A small survey of tree services on Long Island indicates it is predominantly (well, 100%) male operated insofar as can be determined, and thats allegedly. Also JE was born in Queens which, I know, some Long Islanders think is allegedly part of Long Island.

Red herring: Nobody is claiming that the woman runs a business of tree chopping.

Oh, and Steve? For someone who has been a New Yorker all his life, you sure don't know much about where you live.....

 

[fsol]

It seems to me that who cut down the tree is not even important.
It would have been important if JE had actually specified who had cut the tree down, but as usual he left him self enough room so that it didn't matter.

In the first tree example JEs use of the word "you" coming as it did after talking about Grandpa can mean, an individual, some one else in the family or the family as a group. JE only supplies the details once the sitter confirms the details her self.

In the second tree example JEs use of the word "you" is directed at the sitter. In fact he repeats his assertion because the sitters response makes him think he got a hit. Problem is, he didn't get a hit. It was the groundsman that cut down the tree without the knowledge of the sitter.

So to recap. Who cut the tree down is only important if JE had actually clearly stated who had cut down the tree and got it right. In the above examples he doesn't do this. This is because he is throwing guesses out and hoping they stick.

 

[Loki]

Claus,

Ah, I see where you went wrong!

I'm prepared to concede the possibility that I went wrong


After all, I find these conversations between you and Clancie/Neo to end up being a chain of "ah, but what I actually said was..." stretching back to...well, to before the birth of the internet, probably (but I still think you took a cheap shot with no real substance behind it )

In any case, please resume your analysis of JE and his passion for female lumberjacks.

 

[Starrman]

I still haven't seen Clancie, Neo or Steve answer the question of weather JE might just be the best cold reader out there. I used a basketball analogy earlier:

Why can't this be explaied as JE being the BEST cold reader out there? Michael Jordan's lifetime statistics are much better than most basketball players, but they are all STILL playing basketball.

Loki use a cricket analogy:

The greatest batsman of all time was Donald Bradman, who played 60 years ago. He finished with a career average of "99.94". The second highest career average is "60.97", then "60.83", then "60.73", then "59.23" then "58.27". The career averages are spread pretty evenly from "60" downwards - with one enormous blimp up to Bradman at "99.94". Every now and then, someone is *a lot* better than those around him/her.

(Guys - I apologize if you already answered this and I missed it. If you did just let me know and I will go find it. )

 

[Jeff Corey]

Some people can't see the forest for the trees. What has posting the names of owners of tree services on LI got to do with whether a woman, not necessisarily from LI, has ever cut down a tree?
Yet another examole of a long, meaningless post of irrelevant details.
Fact: women can and have cut down trees. My wife even attacks shrubbery with electric clippers. She wants a chainsaw for her birthday.

 

[neofight]

Please explain where the 19 minutes worth of a 30-minute reading goes, neo.

What I was trying to say is that on "Crossing Over", the show, the entire show consists of only a couple of readings. Sometimes the entire show features only one (1) single reading, either with one person or one small group of family and/or friends.

This shows a heck of a lot more of the actual reading than did the few seconds per reading that ABC aired of Ian Rowland's readings.....neo

 

[dingler44]

I still haven't seen Clancie, Neo or Steve answer the question of weather JE might just be the best cold reader out there. I used a basketball analogy earlier:

I'm also waiting, with great intrigue, for a response to that issue.

 

[neofight]

(....still working....)

btw, voidx, I may have some other live and unedited readings that we can actually watch here, but will post them next week when neo's back.

Hi, Clancie. Just stealing a few moments while everything's quiet with the grandkids. Nobody knows I'm down here yet. lol .....neo

 

[dingler44]

Hi, Clancie. Just stealing a few moments while everything's quiet with the grandkids. Nobody knows I'm down here yet. lol .....neo

Why not use those spare moments to address these points:

Starrman:

Why can't this be explaied as JE being the BEST cold reader out there? Michael Jordan's lifetime statistics are much better than most basketball players, but they are all STILL playing basketball.

Me:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Clancie
Well, is he the best cold reader? Or is he a mediocre cold reader? I wish critics would make up their minds!

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Please don't dodge the argument here.

IF JE was the best cold reader or IF JE was the best cold reader with available transcripts to analyze, neofight's request for "relative proof" in finding a better cold reader would be moot.

And quite disturbingly, neofight clings to her "relative proof" argument like it's some towering monument to logic. It's pathetic, really. It's equally sad that you try to defend it by ignoring the criticism it deserves.

Starrman:

I still haven't seen Clancie, Neo or Steve answer the question of weather JE might just be the best cold reader out there. I used a basketball analogy earlier:



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why can't this be explaied as JE being the BEST cold reader out there? Michael Jordan's lifetime statistics are much better than most basketball players, but they are all STILL playing basketball.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Loki use a cricket analogy:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The greatest batsman of all time was Donald Bradman, who played 60 years ago. He finished with a career average of "99.94". The second highest career average is "60.97", then "60.83", then "60.73", then "59.23" then "58.27". The career averages are spread pretty evenly from "60" downwards - with one enormous blimp up to Bradman at "99.94". Every now and then, someone is *a lot* better than those around him/her.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



(Guys - I apologize if you already answered this and I missed it. If you did just let me know and I will go find it. )

 

[neofight]

The biggest problem I have with this rationalisation (apart from it's convenience!) is that I haven't heard JE himself offer this excuse! And if he can't really do readings on the phone on national TV, why does he try? Perhaps because it boosts his public profile??

Loki, he usually does most of his tv/radio guest appearances around the times he is promoting one of his books or possibly a new "CO" season. It's possible that it is a contract obligation.

There have been obvious sound/technical problems from time to time on LKL, including a person calling in while a train was passing by, and poor telephone connections, as well as the caller being disconnected too quickly to validate something that John said............neo

 

[neofight]

Why not use those spare moments to address these points:

Real quickly, I don't believe that it is only a matter of JE being the best cold-reader in the world because as Loki says, he sometimes comes out with hits that we just don't believe can be explained by simple cold-reading. Loki thinks there has to be some hot-reading done as well. I disagee.

When I see JE come up with equally excellent hits at seminars, and seminars with general admission at that, meaning no assigned seating, (READ: no chance for research) then I simply cannot accept that JE is a mere, albeit super-talented, cold-reader. ........neo

 

[Darat]

Loki, he usually does most of his tv/radio guest appearances around the times he is promoting one of his books or possibly a new "CO" season. It's possible that it is a contract obligation.

There have been obvious sound/technical problems from time to time on LKL, including a person calling in while a train was passing by, and poor telephone connections, as well as the caller being disconnected too quickly to validate something that John said............neo

So Loki and you agree - he does it to boost his public profile and make more money.

 

[Darat]

Real quickly, I don't believe that it is only a matter of JE being the best cold-reader in the world because as Loki says, he sometimes comes out with hits that we just don't believe can be explained by simple cold-reading. Loki thinks there has to be some hot-reading done as well. I disagee.

When I see JE come up with equally excellent hits at seminars, and seminars with general admission at that, meaning no assigned seating, (READ: no chance for research) then I simply cannot accept that JE is a mere, albeit super-talented, cold-reader. ........neo

You seem to keep discounting several points many posters have brought up:

1) The fact that many of JE's very "special" hits seem to involve feedback from the sitter before they become "special"
2) The fact that many of the special hits start with a generalisation that can fit many, many people.
3) And that he could just be “guessing” – but this is really “educated” guesses based on his vast experience of what people react to and the fact that not many people are truly “unique”.

And one I would add is that we all experience many, many common situations, but fail to realise that millions of other people also have these experiences, e.g. parents dying, unresolved “issues” with people who have died, regrets that we never said something, that we didn’t do enough, families that don’t talk, family members brought up by others, adoption, trouble in the family and so on – all common, all general, but to us very “special”.

 

[dingler44]

When I see JE come up with equally excellent hits at seminars, and seminars with general admission at that, meaning no assigned seating, (READ: no chance for research) then I simply cannot accept that JE is a mere, albeit super-talented, cold-reader. ........neo

Do you have some examples of these hits for analysis? If they've already been discussed in another thread or forum, please just point me in the right direction.

 

[Renfield]

You also don't get to hear these exchanges in their entirety. We have no idea what might have been said earlier that might have helped him make this guess.

I don't care how high you pile the anecdotes. They still do not constitute evidence.

Did you notice, at the start of the episode in which these appeared, the disclaimer that the show was for entertainment purposes only?

Of course you know that the shows are edited. I assume you would not try to pass off anything that occurs there as happening under controlled conditions?

You have no way of verifying that JE did not research these subjects, either before they entered the studio, or while they were in the studio with the microphones on.