Interesting JE Hits....

[SteveGrenard]

from the George Washington Papers Website, a False Analogy
from Insti8gr re alleged tree chopping by George Washington.
I am surprised you didn't know this was a myth Insti.

http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/lesson/life/life1.html

Unlike for later periods in his life, historians don't have much evidence about George Washington's boyhood. We have to take what other people wrote about him and then figure out what stories from his youth are true and which are myths.

For instance, we know that the tale of young George chopping down the cherry tree is a myth, created in 1809 by Parson Weems, a man who wanted to establish Washington as a role model for other .................

 

[thaiboxerken]

from the George Washington Papers Website, a False Analogy
from Insti8gr re alleged tree chopping by George Washington.
I am surprised you didn't know this was a myth Insti. [/QUOTE]

This has nothing to do with the discussion, neither is the analogy necessarily "false" towards the context of the discussion. It's not unheard of for a child to chop down small trees. That's the point, not whether or not GWashington did or not.

My mom has chopped down 3 trees that I know of, they simply were in the way of the garden she was planting.

 

[SteveGrenard]

No, this is about JE's frame of reference and chopping down trees and land clearing is hardly unheard of in many parts of the city of New York. Besides JE is not from the concrete canyons of Manhattan but from Queens and then Long Island where there was much development and tree chopping.

 

[Instig8R]

from the George Washington Papers Website, a False Analogy
from Insti8gr re alleged tree chopping by George Washington.
I am surprised you didn't know this was a myth Insti.

The issue is that some people here seem to envision a large tree being chopped down by the female sitter. I don't understand why some folks are not considering the fact that there are small trees. Hence, a lumberjack (screaming "Timber!") is not necessarily involved in every tree removal!

Unless I missed it, the size of the tree is not revealed in the transcript excerpt posted in this thread.

As for George Washington, I am well aware of the fact that the story of the Cherry Tree was a myth. That is why I used the word "allegedly".

Here is what I said: "After all, wasn't George Washington a child when he allegedly chopped down the Cherry Tree?"

But, thanks for the history lesson.

 

[thaiboxerken]

No, this is about JE's frame of reference and chopping down trees and land clearing is hardly unheard of in many parts of the city of New York. Besides JE is not from the concrete canyons of Manhattan but from Queens and then Long Island where there was much development and tree chopping.

Uh yea. Isn't this what the skeptics are saying? The tree hit is hardly impressive, and the reason is that it's not uncommon for people to chop down trees.

 

[SteveGrenard]

t: Uh yea. Isn't this what the skeptics are saying? The tree hit is hardly impressive, and the reason is that it's not uncommon for people to chop down trees.


Yes, but by whom? Insti8r maintains that it is not unusual for a woman or as in the false GW example, a young child to chop down trees. Even if the GW myth were not a myth, it would've occurred hundreds of years ago and in rural Virginia. Having been a NYorker all my life, while kids and women might chop down trees elsewhere, I have only seen men and heavy machines do it here. And if there is a frame of reference for JE, it would not include women and children as among those who chop down trees .......... even smaller ones.

 

[Loki]

Claus,

In which case, there would probably be NO limit to JE's frame of reference, right? After all, he does live in NY, where people from all over the world live.

Seems to me this is a semantic issue again Claus, and your use of English is creating a meaning you did not intend. JE's frame of reference is definitely limited, but the pool of references that it is created from is almost "unlimited".

If we work from the inplied assumption that references are completely dictated by "where you live" (an invalid assumption anyway I would think, but you introduced this when you said "If you can complain that New Yorkers don't fell trees, how would JE have 'tree chopping' as his personal frame of reference? He has lived in New York all his life, right?") then the following are true statements :

1. If "reference 'x'" is not in the pool of "references known to the people of New York" then it can't be known to JE.

2. If "reference 'x'" is in the pool of "references known to the people of New York" then it might be known to JE.

No, I'm not reaching.

Well, I still think you are!

Again, you said "If you can complain that New Yorkers don't fell trees, how would JE have 'tree chopping' as his personal frame of reference? He has lived in New York all his life, right?"

Put this into a more formal expression of logic :

1. New Yorkers don't fell trees;
2. JE is from New York;
3. Therefore, JE could not know what "tree chopping" looks like, or even means (he can't "reference" it).

This conclusion appears not to flow from the premises. In fact, it appears you are assuming additional underlying premises :

1. New Yorkers don't fell trees;
2. JE is from New York;
2a. A person can only "reference" something if they have done it themselves;
3. Therefore, JE could not know what "tree chopping" looks like, or even means (he can't "reference" it).

Now your conclusion stands, but premise 2a looks decidedly dodgy to me. In fact, it looks like a stretch! (Not to mention that premise 1 is almost certainly not true - although you might be able to salvage the intention by rephrasing it as a probability rather than an absolute).

 

[renata]

I can understand that, Brown and Mr. Skinny. Likewise, I’m sure you can understand why it surprised me, as I’ve never known any woman who cut down a tree (or JE ever addressing this possibility to someone before).

And given the woman's apparent age and frailty, it seemed an odd direction to guess.

**Here’s a thought. If its so common, why doesn’t he use it more often? Why the one time he uses it, does it “fit”? (Okay, that’s rhetorical. I already know 10 of you are yelling, “EDITING”, lol)

Well, well. I was just continuing with analysis of another LKL reading, when I stumbled onto this

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "Crossing Over With John Edward")
EDWARD: You cut down his tree?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God, the tree in the backyard.
EDWARD: You cut down his tree?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, at the cemetery. We just noticed it yesterday. We went Father's Day with the kids. The tree was gone that's right by the plot, right in front. They cut it down, they said, so the sun could shine on daddy.
EDWARD: That's a nice way of covering it, because that tree was how people found him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. That's how we noticed when we drove to the mall. We used to look for the tree so we can see the plot. Oh my God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0209/06/lkl.00.html

I guess he does use it more often. I guess the reading you quoted is not the one time he uses it.

 

[Instig8R]

Having been a NYorker all my life, while kids and women might chop down trees elsewhere, I have only seen men and heavy machines do it here. And if there is a frame of reference for JE, it would not include women and children as among those who chop down trees .......... even smaller ones.

Well, you may be the self-declared expert on tree-cutting on the Island of Staten. However, I am the self-declared expert on tree cutting on the Island of Long.

Perhaps if you lived out here in the provinces, you would know that not all trees are large. You would also have the opportunity to observe us womenfolk doing all sorts of chores, including landscaping. (We make the menfolk do the cooking and cleaning.)

 

[thaiboxerken]

I could care less about "frame of reference". The fact is, a person doing landscaping and chopping down trees is not uncommon. Women can do it, kids can do it.. I've done it and so has my mom. The hit is not anything special because it's hardly a rare event. Also, JE did ask if someone cut down a tree.. he didn't tell anyone anything.

Why do questions count as hits in the believer world?

 

[KelvinG]

Clancie wrote:

And when you say its cold reading because out of the volume of guesses some will be right? Is that actually considered part of cold reading? (a question, not a challenge. I’m not sure).

Yes, I do believe that is a a part of cold reading. JE and others like him rapidly throw out guesses, most of them missing, until they hit something that gets a favourable reaction from the sitter. At that point, he siezes on it, and keeps throwing guesses in that direction.
And, in the words of Ian Rowland who scored the calender hit on ABC's Primetime Live "I just got lucky."

JE is bound to get lucky once in while because he does so many readings. If he didn't get "hits" once in a while I would be surprised.
Nothing he does is particulary impressive since you can't possibly miss all the time, no matter how bad a cold reader you are.

And is JE a bad cold reader? No, I would say he is a very good cold reader. But that's like saying someone is a good car thief.

 

[Instig8R]

And is JE a bad cold reader? No, I would say he is a very good cold reader. But that's like saying someone is a good car thief.

KelvinG, I agree with you that JE is a very good cold reader. However, imo, he appears even better to people in other parts of the country. JE was born and raised here on Long Island, a rather unique polyglot. The majority of people that he reads in the gallery are from this area, and are culturally familiar to him. Just like any other "community", there are customs, folkways, etc., specific to this area.

Thus, when JE throws out statements about women cutting down trees, or mentions names like Aloysius, Hedwig, etc., I (as a Long Islander) am not amazed that it is acknowledged by the gallery sitter. However, someone in another part of New York might think it is impressive, and someone in another state might be absolutely amazed. I believe this fact contributes a great deal to his success... as a coldreader, not as a psychic medium.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

You would also have the opportunity to observe us womenfolk doing all sorts of chores, including landscaping. (We make the menfolk do the cooking and cleaning.)

I thought you were a feller. Hmmm, learn something new each day on these boards..

 

[Instig8R]

Hi, UnSin! You thought I was a guy??? Maybe it's because of all those darned trees that I cut down!

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Hi, UnSin! You thought I was a guy??? Maybe it's because of all those darned trees that I cut down!

A shiksa lumber jack? Oy Vey!

- assuming of course you're not a yenta lumber jack. And my cold reading skills with you have proven woefully un-Edwaresque.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Renata I am confused by this exchange. First a mention of a backyard tree followed by a cemetary tree which was evidently removed by groundskeepers and not the sitter(s). Trees can come up (pun intended) in many different ways so I am at a loss to see why this exchange emulates the other validation in anyway.

A small survey of tree services on Long Island indicates it is predominantly (well, 100%) male operated insofar as can be determined, and thats allegedly. Also JE was born in
Queens which, I know, some Long Islanders think is allegedly part of Long Island.

Shamrock Tree Expert Co. 631-298-4118- 631-298-4619 Free Estimates/Fully Insured

Tree work. Fully insured. Mark 765-5243, 765-2578.


BUSH HOG SERVICE: Overgrown fields, lots, heavy brush mowed. NEW side-boom mower for mowing roadsides and private driveways. Tom Romanski 727-7668.


Fall cleanups, seasonal maintenance, reasonable, professional tree/shrub/hedge pruning. Tom Sadowski, 765-3836.


TREE WORK: Stump grinding, land clearing. License #17754-HI. Peter Dooley, 631-765-3282.

 

[renata]

Renata I am confused by this exchange. First a mention of a backyard tree followed by a cemetary tree which was evidently removed by groundskeepers and not the sitter(s). Trees can come up (pun intended) in many different ways so I am at a loss to see why this exchange emulates the other validation in anyway.

A small survey of tree services on Long Island indicates it is predominantly (well, 100%) male operated insofar as can be determined, and thats allegedly. Also JE was born in
Queens which, I know, some Long Islanders think is allegedly part of Long Island.

Shamrock Tree Expert Co. 631-298-4118- 631-298-4619 Free Estimates/Fully Insured

Tree work. Fully insured. Mark 765-5243, 765-2578.


BUSH HOG SERVICE: Overgrown fields, lots, heavy brush mowed. NEW side-boom mower for mowing roadsides and private driveways. Tom Romanski 727-7668.


Fall cleanups, seasonal maintenance, reasonable, professional tree/shrub/hedge pruning. Tom Sadowski, 765-3836.


TREE WORK: Stump grinding, land clearing. License #17754-HI. Peter Dooley, 631-765-3282.

Clancie said the tree guess has not come up before, so it was unique. I showed that it has come up before. What is the confusion, exactly? The hit Clancie thought was unique was not.

 

[Ceinwyn]

I'm sorry but I think this is getting utterly ridiculous.

I've noticed that all too often, people get caught up in minor details that really aren't that important. I reference the Lucianarchy thread, in which everyone tried to pinpoint how the timestamp works, and this thread which revolves around who cut down a tree when.

The fact is, Renata did a great analysis of JE right here in this thread and that analysis is not getting more credit. To me, it shows exactly what JE is and what he does: a cold reader who makes a lot of money out of pretending the dead talk to him.

Whether he fools people knowingly, or whether he truly believes he has some kind of gift, doesn't matter. None of it can be shown to be anything but cold reading, well done for sure, but nothing psychic at all.

 

[Instig8R]

A small survey of tree services on Long Island indicates it is predominantly (well, 100%) male operated insofar as can be determined, and thats allegedly. Also JE was born in
Queens which, I know, some Long Islanders think is allegedly part of Long Island.

Does your survey indicate how many of these male operated companies were NOT retained for tree removal, because the female property owners chose to remove small trees by themselves?

P.S. If you will check a map of the NY downstate area, you will learn that Queens is part of Long Island, and so is Brooklyn.

 

[dingler44]

enough

A small survey of tree services on Long Island indicates it is predominantly (well, 100%) male operated insofar as can be determined, and thats allegedly. Also JE was born in
Queens which, I know, some Long Islanders think is allegedly part of Long Island.

Shamrock Tree Expert Co. 631-298-4118- 631-298-4619 Free Estimates/Fully Insured

Tree work. Fully insured. Mark 765-5243, 765-2578.


BUSH HOG SERVICE: Overgrown fields, lots, heavy brush mowed. NEW side-boom mower for mowing roadsides and private driveways. Tom Romanski 727-7668.


Fall cleanups, seasonal maintenance, reasonable, professional tree/shrub/hedge pruning. Tom Sadowski, 765-3836.


TREE WORK: Stump grinding, land clearing. License #17754-HI. Peter Dooley, 631-765-3282.

Steve, wouldn't you rather go back to www.johnedwardtalk.org and rationalize with your band of rationalizers? Or is it the utter and likely unbearable triteness of that whole forum that keeps you coming back to www.randi.org where you can engage a community of reasonably to extremely intelligent people?

Seriously, what ARE you doing here? If your goal was to reaffirm how fake JE is and how impossible he is to defend, congratulations.