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Intelligent Design

Skeptic Ginger said:
Leaving insects out of the discussion, you don't think a couple billion years of mammal evolution is enough to conclude if 6 legged mammals were going to evolve they would have?
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It's closer to 200 million years, on a quick check. Still, I'm willing to go with a "probably" to answer this question. Yet, that question is also notably different than whether 4 limbs is actually "ideal." There are other factors that would play notable roles, only a couple of which were referenced before.

Skeptic Ginger said:
As for the complexity of growing an extra pair of legs, it's not that much different from growing six fingers on both hands. The genetic control for how a finger develops is different from the genetic control of how many fingers develop. Therefore when a mutation occurs in numbers of fingers, you don't get extra fingers that are only bones with no skin or muscles.
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The placement of the extra two limbs, effects on balance, effects on the more general body structure that's pointedly adapted to make the most of the usual 4 limbs, and how well they can be controlled are still points of concern, even if you deal with the basic genetic controls. An extra finger doesn't actually change much in any of those regards compared to extra arms or legs, given that there really aren't any other notable changes needed overall.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Leaving insects out of the discussion, you don't think a couple billion years of mammal evolution is enough to conclude if 6 legged mammals were going to evolve they would have?
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I don't know, but that's not the statement with which I was disagreeing.

As for the complexity of growing an extra pair of legs, it's not that much different from growing six fingers on both hands.
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Yes, it is.
 
Thor 2 said:
Interestingly this thread has morphed into a discussion about evolution and no champions of the belief in intelligent design have visited these pages .... pity.
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There's a problem with that? I, for one, quickly become bored with ID'ers.
 
Thor 2 said:
Interestingly this thread has morphed into a discussion about evolution and no champions of the belief in intelligent design have visited these pages .... pity.
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To be a little fair on that regard, there have been a number of people who tried to champion creationism/ID on these boards in the past, though notably fewer since the switch from JREF to ISF. They've generally got themselves banned or left after being subjected to quite a bit of both fair and unfair criticism.

The relevant forums get a fair bit slower when they're not around, either way.
 
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Aridas said:
To be a little fair on that regard, there have been a number of people who tried to champion creationism/ID on these boards in the past, though notably fewer since the switch from JREF to ISF. They've generally got themselves banned or left after being subjected to quite a bit of both fair and unfair criticism.

The relevant forums get a fair bit slower when they're not around, either way.
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Well we do have The Big Dog, Logger, and a few others giving some input. Never been too close to the conversation when one gets banned so cannot form an opinion of the fairness or otherwise thereof.

It has been my observation, in a general way, that when the mist is cleared and the questions asked become clear and specific, the theist tends to get a bit loopy and or fades away.
 
Thor 2 said:
Oh well I just had hoped that someone with a new angle might come along to challenge the atheist minds that are here predominantly.
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One thing I've learned after 15 or so years of JREF/ISF, there are no new angles or jokes. To save time in future discussions, I suggest we tabulate and number the various claims and responses; a claimant could simply post, say, "ID 7," and be met with "ID Rebut 42, 54 and 107." You could thereby cover the equivalent of an entire conversation in less than two real-time sentences.

As for jokes, everyone would soon recognize that "J4" is a real knee-slapper.

This signature is intended to irritate people.
 
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Getting back to the subject of intelligent design, as an atheist I do not entirely rule out the idea that some form of intelligence exists, that may be some kind of creator.

I do entirely reject the Abrahamic God idea as being too absurd for consideration, and even doubt that we are the object of a creation. We may be some kind of by product of experimentation, but are beset with so many flaws, that it's hard to imagine us as the product of design by a superior intelligence.

Motivation is something I struggle with. What motive would some other intelligence have in creating another? Perhaps it is to put it to work. We after all are on the verge of creating what we call artificial intelligence for that purpose.
 
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