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Intelligence official say U.S. has retrieved craft of non-human origin

Meanwhile, due to the preoccupation with UAPs being alien, someone (China?) is getting air-to-air practice on F-16s and F-23s in the desert southwest:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...e-things-in-arizonas-military-training-ranges

Encounters with small unidentified "objects," sometimes in swarm-like groups of as many as eight. Sightings of other objects, including some characterized as drones, flying at altitudes up to 36,000 feet and as fast as Mach 0.75. Another apparent small drone actually hitting the canopy of an F-16 Viper causing damage. These incidents and many more, all occurred in or around various military air combat training ranges in Arizona since January 2020.

The events are described in reports from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) filed over roughly a three-year period. Overall, the data points to what are often categorized as drones, but many of which are actually unidentified objects, as well as what do appear to be drones, or uncrewed aerial systems (UAS), intruding into these restricted warning areas with alarming regularity.
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The great thing about this article is it goes into detail, and takes care to explain alternative explanations:

The incidents involving the balloon and other 'objects' also revealed that the U.S. military, in particular, was not necessarily attuned to certain kinds of lower-end aerial threats, including literally when it came to what kinds of data its air defense radars were set up to collect.

Radars and other sensors may be part of another possible emerging trend based on what we're seeing from the FAA logs and newly released HATR reports. This has to do with the sensitivity of the F-35's sensor suite coupled with its immense data fusion capabilities. The War Zone has previously pointed out that a growing number of UAP reports from Navy pilots in the past two decades may well be tied, at least in part, to the introduction of newer, more sensitive active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars to the mix through the fielding of later block F/A-18E/F Super Hornet fighter jets and the new E-2D Hawkeye airborne early warning and control aircraft.

Especially without having more details about the final investigations into these incidents, this also raises questions about whether advanced sensors suites on the F-35 and other U.S. military aircraft may also be picking up things and not necessarily categorizing them correctly, in at least some instances.

At the same time, the F-35, in particular, has immediate additional ways to help positively identify any object of interest, including its Distributed Aperture System (DAS) and Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS). The jet's powerful electronic intelligence gathering (electronic support measures or ESM) suite is also a factor. The jet's AN/APG-81 radar, DAS, EOTS, and its ESM system can work together to detect, track and engage targets. Those targets can be detected in the infrared or radio frequency spectrum. If one sensor detects something either passively or actively, all those sensors can be immediately brought to bear on the target. This would all point to a significant amount of data being collected in encounters involving Joint Strike Strike Fighters even in the absence of direct visual (eyeball) confirmation. Older fighters also commonly carry targeting pods now that can be slaved to the jet's radar for long-range visual identification of aerial targets, as well. Even more advanced sensors are hitting the fleet, which you can read more about here.
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This relates to the larger issue of the Tic-Tac and Gimble videos simply being a case of pilots dealing with awesome new radars and sensors that pick up everything the old radars didn't, or ignored.

Honestly, if I were a counter intelligence guy I would whip up UFO hysteria to help smoke out my enemy's radar capabilities too.
 
Axxman300 said:
Meanwhile, due to the preoccupation with UAPs being alien, someone (China?) is getting air-to-air practice on F-16s and F-23s in the desert southwest:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...e-things-in-arizonas-military-training-ranges



The great thing about this article is it goes into detail, and takes care to explain alternative explanations:



This relates to the larger issue of the Tic-Tac and Gimble videos simply being a case of pilots dealing with awesome new radars and sensors that pick up everything the old radars didn't, or ignored.

Honestly, if I were a counter intelligence guy I would whip up UFO hysteria to help smoke out my enemy's radar capabilities too.
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And I certainly would not explain the sightings I have good explanations for if doing so would give away the capabilities of our existing secret equipment. ;)
 
https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4134891-a-monumental-ufo-scandal-is-looming/

The decades-long saga of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) is barreling headlong toward one of two stunning conclusions.

Either the U.S. government has mounted an extraordinary, decades-long coverup of UFO retrieval and reverse-engineering activities, or elements of the defense and intelligence establishment are engaging in a staggeringly brazen psychological disinformation campaign.

Either possibility would have profound implications for democracy, the role of government and perhaps also humanity’s place in the cosmos.
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The author is described thus:

Marik von Rennenkampff served as an analyst with the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of International Security and non-proliferation, as well as an Obama administration appointee at the U.S. Department of Defense.

Well if we're barreling towards one or other conclusion I guess we'll know which it is pretty soon.

If we're still getting on with our lives in a few weeks and this latest fuss has petered out like all the previous ones, can we conclude that there were other possibilities after all?
 
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Pixel42 said:
If we're still getting on with our lives in a few weeks and this latest fuss has petered out like all the previous ones, can we conclude that there were other possibilities after all?
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Even if the battle is still raging into next year, there naturally were, are and will be other possibilities. Marik von Rennenkampff's statement is like an overzealous plug for what eventually turns out to be a really bad movie.
 
MBDK said:
Even if the battle is still raging into next year, there naturally were, are and will be other possibilities. Marik von Rennenkampff's statement is like an overzealous plug for what eventually turns out to be a really bad movie.
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One of the other possibilities is that there is a vast conspiracy . . . . one that concocts amusing stories and feeds them to a gullible few who them become True Believers to to the cause. Outside of Bob Lazar* there does not appear to be anyone who has come forward to say, "I've seen Them," (whatever Them is).

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* Whose credibility is zero.
 
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Pixel42 said:
https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4134891-a-monumental-ufo-scandal-is-looming/



The author is described thus:

Marik von Rennenkampff served as an analyst with the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of International Security and non-proliferation, as well as an Obama administration appointee at the U.S. Department of Defense.

Well if we're barreling towards one or other conclusion I guess we'll know which it is pretty soon.

If we're still getting on with our lives in a few weeks and this latest fuss has petered out like all the previous ones, can we conclude that there were other possibilities after all?
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Here's one: a cadre of life-long UFO nutters has finally found enough gullible legislative allies with the clout to openly force an uninterested US military to give them money and facilities with which to carry on their UFO-chasing hobby, with the added bonus that they can give their typical fantastical and utterly baseless cosmological and conspiracy theories a measure of new respectability because thanks to the blessing of their congressional benefactors they get to call themselves "Pentagon officials" and "intelligence community whistleblowers" now.
 
Checkmite said:
Here's one: a cadre of life-long UFO nutters has finally found enough gullible legislative allies with the clout to openly force an uninterested US military to give them money and facilities with which to carry on their UFO-chasing hobby, with the added bonus that they can give their typical fantastical and utterly baseless cosmological and conspiracy theories a measure of new respectability because thanks to the blessing of their congressional benefactors they get to call themselves "Pentagon officials" and "intelligence community whistleblowers" now.
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Like I've said before, Harry Reid was always the True Believer in Congress. I'm sure some also have the national-security based idea that it is important to identify stuff in their airspace, which is justifiable.
 
arthwollipot said:
I'm sure some also have the national-security based idea that it is important to identify stuff in their airspace, which is justifiable.
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They use that line a lot, but in my opinion enough has been said in the last couple of years by the congressmen involved to convince me that it's facetious, possibly to the point of deliberate prevarication on their part. If all they were concerned about was that the military could identify anything within US airspace if needed, they would be satisfied when the Pentagon gives briefings in which they explain that a particular "weird looking" video is likely just a small slow-moving balloon filmed from a fast-moving aircraft; but they are very much not satisfied with such explanations at all, to the point of vaguely but openly threatening consequences for military officers for refusing to "cooperate" with the congressional inquiry.

The most recent Senate directive explicitly refers to "non-human technology". It's about alien spaceships, plain and simple. That's the "truth" they already believed in when all of this started, it's what they're expecting to hear from the Pentagon, and they will not be satisfied with anything else, period.
 
Axxman300 said:
UFOs/UAPs are now considered real, without any debate right now. The major news outlets have done almost zero fact-checking on anything testified to in that hearing. The NY Post is the lone acception, and since they're a tabloid no one listens to them. Meanwhile the NY Times has jumped into the belief column with both feet, thanks to an inhouse reporter who's been a longtime Woo-laid drinker.
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It is ironic. A tabloid with little credibility on most matters, certainly compared with the NY Times, has at least one reporter who is approaching the issue from a skeptical perspective, whereas the the Times allowed a UFO proponent to use their publication to promote nonsense.
 
Puppycow said:
It is ironic. A tabloid with little credibility on most matters, certainly compared with the NY Times, has at least one reporter who is approaching the issue from a skeptical perspective, whereas the the Times allowed a UFO proponent to use their publication to promote nonsense.
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Greenstreet used to be the NY Post's UFO guy. He was a believer until he got a good look at some key things, and started doing the math, and asking better questions. Now he's a man possessed, calling these people on their BS at every turn.
 
Axxman300 said:
Greenstreet used to be the NY Post's UFO guy. He was a believer until he got a good look at some key things, and started doing the math, and asking better questions. Now he's a man possessed, calling these people on their BS at every turn.
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Yeah, I have liked his reporting but I notice that some UFO people are upset with him for becoming a turncoat in their opinion.

Also, I have seen some reference to him having a less than savory past on racial issues. Does anyone know if this is true? All I can find is allusions to it by his enemies on Twitter.
 
angrysoba said:
Also, I have seen some reference to him having a less than savory past on racial issues. Does anyone know if this is true? All I can find is allusions to it by his enemies on Twitter.
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Why is that important?
 
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GraculusTheGreenBird said:
Yes, its simple. The rotation is glare, and exactly matches the rotation that the gimbal-based camera unit that was tracking it would need to take in order to track it.

There are other parts of glare on the screen that exactly match that rotation of the center object, as you would expect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEjV8DdSbs&ab_channel=MickWest

In fact, the file itself was named "Gimbal" which means whoever made it had a very good idea what was causing the effect and new it was something mundane.
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Absolutely. The apparent "behaviour" of what is a very distant object from the camera is explained. However, it does not add anything to what the object was and what it is doing there in the first place. We still have the classic unknown aerial object.
 
Explorer said:
Absolutely. The apparent "behaviour" of what is a very distant object from the camera is explained. However, it does not add anything to what the object was and what it is doing there in the first place. We still have the classic unknown aerial object.
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Not completely unknown. It's almost certainly a fixed wing jet aircraft. Which model cannot be determined because it is too blurry and out of focus. It's an infrared camera so the heat shows up as glare obscuring the actual shape of the plane.

https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/gimbal-video-genuine-ufo-or-camera-artifact/
 
The Star Talk Podcast tonight was pretty good, reporting on the rational bits of the UAP sightings with guest, David Spergel, from NASA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUQgQlWw5b4
Are the UAP sightings aliens here on Earth? Neil deGrasse Tyson and comedian co-host Paul Mecurio discuss the congressional hearings on unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP) with astrophysicist and chair of NASA’s UAP independent study team, David Spergel.

Learn about the UAP hearings, what the goals are, and what NASA can contribute to our understanding of these phenomena. What is NASA’s attitude on UAPs? What sort of institutionalized thinking needs to be overcome? Find out what an “artifact” is and why so many UAP sightings are classified. Are conspiracy theorists right that the government is hiding something?

Why are people afraid to report UAP sightings? How can we reduce the stigma around reporting UAPs? We discuss China’s spy balloon and the discovery of lightning sprites. Why aren’t UAP sightings more common? Is there a reason why mostly the military sees them? Learn about examples of unidentified things in the sky that turned into scientific discovery.

What makes something anomalous? We discuss the difference in culture between the military and science community and what changes are needed in both. We think of ways for ordinary citizens to collect UAP data and the likelihood of even recognizing an alien spacecraft. Plus, what could a UAP be besides weather balloons and aliens?
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If you want to watch it here:



Tyson did his annoying 'look at me' interruptions in the beginning but he backed off eventually. And the guest didn't appear to have the sense of humor at first the podcast guests usually have. But you can't blame him when he was trying to be serious and he kept getting interrupted.

The summary of things I found interesting:
Some of the videos that looked like a vehicle turning around was due to the camera twisting back after reaching maximum turning angle.

Military jets/cameras are not looking for UAPs so the data is lacking one needs to assess the UAP.

What is needed is all the surrounding data: weather, kind of camera, direction, etc. And there is a lot of data that can be added like radar and observations from other sources.
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He debunks aliens as we here know, distance being the biggest problem. I liked the way he put it that any aliens arriving here would be millions of years more advanced than we are and we would not likely recognize their technology. Again nothing that surprising.

I found it a worthwhile 47 minutes.
 
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