In this corner..M. Moore and in the other..Hannity!

[Sporanox]

Outside observer chiming in: nice dodge. You can put in a bit more effort than that!

To assert that Michael Moore has no idea what kind of system he would prefer is pretty ridiculous. That's something most everybody has thought of - even grade 9 students.

Sorry, those are his words. "Let's not worry about that right now."

Honestly, I'd say that he's for democratic socialism, based on where he's leaned on...everything politically, ever. But I'm trying to be fair!

 

[Praktik]

Sorry, those are his words. "Let's not worry about that right now."

Honestly, I'd say that he's for democratic socialism, based on where he's leaned on...everything politically, ever. But I'm trying to be fair!

Interesting that you honestly think that..

 

[Sporanox]

Interesting that you honestly think that..

Yep, isn't it?

I will say this: it's undeniable that he's talented.

 

[Lurker]

The AV Club interview makes it clear - he has no fricking clue.

You appear to be a mindreader cause that rather offhand comment seems mighty small to base your conclusion on.

In any case, that doesn't change a whit of the fact that Michael Moore made all his money in a CAPITALIST system, not his nebulous "21st century economic order." Will you try to muddy the waters once again?

Let me change this for you.

In any case, that doesn't change a whit of the fact that Karl Marx made all his money in a CAPITALIST system, not his nebulous "20th century economic order."

Are you now saying that Marx was a hypocrite as well? Marx is clearly more anti-capitalist than Moore since Moore advocates a capitalism we practiced in some distant past as compared to what we practice today.

 

[Sporanox]

You appear to be a mindreader cause that rather offhand comment seems mighty small to base your conclusion on.

Failing to interpret his words in a favorable way, you fall back on the "nobody knows what he's thinking" defense. Reasonable enough, I suppose, yet if I said he was planning a heavily socialist economy, I'd be accused of mindreading there too, so it's a lose-lose situation! Is going by what comes out of the guy's mouth so wrong?

Are you now saying that Marx was a hypocrite as well? Marx is clearly more anti-capitalist than Moore since Moore advocates a capitalism we practiced in some distant past as compared to what we practice today.

I've never heard Moore advocate a capitalism "practiced in the distant past." He's pretty clear on the position that "capitalism is evil."

Marx also didn't amass a fortune while complaining that the gap between the super-rich and super-poor is increasing. Like it or not, Moore clearly likes what capitalism has given him. He also didn't claim he received money because his "articles were good" instead of admitting the obvious - that he made his money under capitalism. Moore has done so. See previous posts.

 

[Lurker]

Failing to interpret his words in a favorable way, you fall back on the "nobody knows what he's thinking" defense. Reasonable enough, I suppose, yet if I said he was planning a heavily socialist economy, I'd be accused of mindreading there too, so it's a lose-lose situation! Is going by what comes out of the guy's mouth so wrong?

No, going by what you extrapolate from his words is so wrong.

I've never heard Moore advocate a capitalism "practiced in the distant past." He's pretty clear on the position that "capitalism is evil."

Hmm, you have not heard him talk about how capitalism has gone wrong over time? I guess you have not listened very well then as it seems to be the main point of his movie.

Marx also didn't amass a fortune while complaining that the gap between the super-rich and super-poor is increasing. Like it or not, Moore clearly likes what capitalism has given him. He also didn't claim he received money because his "articles were good" instead of admitting the obvious - that he made his money under capitalism. Moore has done so. See previous posts.

Frankly, I am not too familiar with Moore. I know he rails against the gap between rich and poor expanding. I don't think he has railed against the ability to get rich, has he? Does he qualify as "super-rich"? I tend to doubt it, myself.

 

[cisco]

The AV Club interview makes it clear - he has no fricking clue.

Are you trolling? Is this a joke?

He "has no fricking clue" because he doesn't want to off-handedly slap a simple label on a complex concept? It sounds like you have no fricking clue.

 

[Sporanox]

No, going by what you extrapolate from his words is so wrong.


Hmm, you have not heard him talk about how capitalism has gone wrong over time? I guess you have not listened very well then as it seems to be the main point of his movie.



Frankly, I am not too familiar with Moore. I know he rails against the gap between rich and poor expanding. I don't think he has railed against the ability to get rich, has he? Does he qualify as "super-rich"? I tend to doubt it, myself.

All semantics designed to rationalize the statement "Capitalism is an evil, and you cannot regulate evil" into something other than a statement that we should abolish capitalism. Not very convincing.

ETA: See previous posts in this thread for how rich he is. Certainly in the multi-millions. As to your other point at the end, I'm not familiar with any definitive statements of his regarding rich people. Yet the logical conclusion of using government to solve the gap is...wait for it...taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Wealth redistributionism.

Are you trolling? Is this a joke?

He "has no fricking clue" because he doesn't want to off-handedly slap a simple label on a complex concept? It sounds like you have no fricking clue.

Gee, after seeing Moore dodge the question "what would your new economic order look like" with "you know what, let's not talk about this right now," I'm not really filled with confidence that he has thought the solution through. Are you?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The man is an overly well-fed capitalist raking in millions while denouncing... capitalism. ....

Apparently you believed Hannity's BS and ignored Moore's answers to the same line of questioning.

Moore is a lot of things but hypocrite is defintely not one of them.

 

[Whiplash]

Need I remind you Michael Moore is fat?

Oh please, your sides new star senator had a book about Rush Limbaugh calling him a "Big Fat Idiot". Spare us any moral indignation, please.

I agree with those who say that this kind of personal stuff shouldn't go on from anyone, on any side of anything. It's not relevant to the issues, unless the issues are obesity.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Oh please, your sides new star senator had a book about Rush Limbaugh calling him a "Big Fat Idiot". Spare us any moral indignation, please.

Please, you denigrate the effort. Our new star senator created a weight timeline graphed against Oprah.

 

[Lurker]

All semantics designed to rationalize the statement "Capitalism is an evil, and you cannot regulate evil" into something other than a statement that we should abolish capitalism. Not very convincing.

If you feel comfortable taking one quote and ignoring others and then extrapolating from that I guess I can't stop you. From a mathematical perspective, such extrapolations are inherently unreliable. Can you justify using one quote over another that casts doubt on your preferred quote?

ETA: See previous posts in this thread for how rich he is. Certainly in the multi-millions.

And you consider multi-millions to be "super-rich"? I'd call it rich but falls short of "super-rich".

As to your other point at the end, I'm not familiar with any definitive statements of his regarding rich people. Yet the logical conclusion of using government to solve the gap is...wait for it...taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Wealth redistributionism.

Oh nos! So Reagan was a socialist because the tax rate on the richest was higher than it is today? Oh my! Kennedy - socialist. Bush I raised taxes so he is a socialist too, right? They're all socialist whores!

 

[Lurker]

Oh please, your sides new star senator had a book about Rush Limbaugh calling him a "Big Fat Idiot". Spare us any moral indignation, please.

Context is everything but I guess that book title goes right over your head.

 

[Oliver]

He's pretty clear on the position that "capitalism is evil."

Really? :
http://fora.tv/2009/09/17/Filmmaker_Michael_Moore_on_Capitalism_A_Love_Story

 

[Sporanox]

Really? :
http://fora.tv/2009/09/17/Filmmaker_Michael_Moore_on_Capitalism_A_Love_Story

You'll have to help me out here, because the "why don't we fix the system" Q&A resulted in more of "the system is too corrupt to fix" from Moore. And not many people have the time to watch the entire one hour program, though I will say it is interesting.

If you feel comfortable taking one quote and ignoring others and then extrapolating from that I guess I can't stop you. From a mathematical perspective, such extrapolations are inherently unreliable. Can you justify using one quote over another that casts doubt on your preferred quote?

What is this other quote that casts doubt on my quotes? And why would you try to apply mathematical analysis to somebody's stated position?

And you consider multi-millions to be "super-rich"? I'd call it rich but falls short of "super-rich".

Well, I guess we can try to define semantics...He's certainly in the top 1% of Americans. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html Beyond that, compared to the Forbes Top 400 or whatever it is, he's far short, but how many years would it take for somebody making $50,000 a year to get to the $22 mil take from Fahrenheit 9/11?

Oh nos! So Reagan was a socialist because the tax rate on the richest was higher than it is today? Oh my! Kennedy - socialist. Bush I raised taxes so he is a socialist too, right? They're all socialist whores!