In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair
- Thread starter KRAMER
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Beleth
FAQ Creator
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Oh dear.
Now even KRAMER has been bitten by the haughtier-than-thou JREF bug.
I had such hopes for him when he posted things like "but, as instructed, it is not my job to judge". It turns out that he has now assumed the job to judge, and in spades.
He hasn't even read Carlos' application. If he had, he would know that Carlos is not claiming that UFOs had anything to do with the actual attack.
"I have also been told by several concerned parties that Carlos himself has posted my letter to him in its entirety elsewhere on the web. If that's true, will TamiO be satisfied with that?"
I can't speak for her, but I know I would be, if it's true. It should be trivial for the concerned parties to provide URLs of this letter. All I've seen so far myself is what Carlos is saying is the first paragraph and the last paragraph. Carlos says that there are three paragraphs that he hasn't posted yet. I'm not asking you, KRAMER, to post it. That is beyond what I consider reasonable. But if you or other concerned parties know that Carlos has posted it, it is not unreasonable to ask you or them for the URL.
"Surely there are more important issues to discuss on these forums than the rantings of the self-deluded"
... actually, there aren't. The idea that paranormal abilities and activities are the rantings of the self-deluded goes to the heart of the JREF Challenge itself.
I am sorry that you have lost sight of a key part of the mission of your employer at such an early stage of your time with them.
You disappoint me, KRAMER. I know we had a slightly rough patch in our first exchange, but honestly, you convinced me that you were above the usual JREF sneering. I was wrong. I am so disappointed that I am actually taking Carlos's side in this exchange, and anyone that knows me will gape in wonder at this.
Now even KRAMER has been bitten by the haughtier-than-thou JREF bug.
I had such hopes for him when he posted things like "but, as instructed, it is not my job to judge". It turns out that he has now assumed the job to judge, and in spades.
He hasn't even read Carlos' application. If he had, he would know that Carlos is not claiming that UFOs had anything to do with the actual attack.
"I have also been told by several concerned parties that Carlos himself has posted my letter to him in its entirety elsewhere on the web. If that's true, will TamiO be satisfied with that?"
I can't speak for her, but I know I would be, if it's true. It should be trivial for the concerned parties to provide URLs of this letter. All I've seen so far myself is what Carlos is saying is the first paragraph and the last paragraph. Carlos says that there are three paragraphs that he hasn't posted yet. I'm not asking you, KRAMER, to post it. That is beyond what I consider reasonable. But if you or other concerned parties know that Carlos has posted it, it is not unreasonable to ask you or them for the URL.
"Surely there are more important issues to discuss on these forums than the rantings of the self-deluded"
... actually, there aren't. The idea that paranormal abilities and activities are the rantings of the self-deluded goes to the heart of the JREF Challenge itself.
I am sorry that you have lost sight of a key part of the mission of your employer at such an early stage of your time with them.
You disappoint me, KRAMER. I know we had a slightly rough patch in our first exchange, but honestly, you convinced me that you were above the usual JREF sneering. I was wrong. I am so disappointed that I am actually taking Carlos's side in this exchange, and anyone that knows me will gape in wonder at this.
Rosencrantz
Is Dead
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WE INTERRUPT THIS DRAMA FOR AN IMPORTANT GRAMMATICAL BULLETIN!
The possessive case of the word "it" is "its" with no apostrophe. The only time one needs an apostrophe is when one wants to say "it is" ("it's") or when one is referring to Cousin It's Hideout. Perhaps this song will help:
"Oh, if it's supposed to be possessive, it's just I-T-S,
but if it's supposed to be a contraction, then it's I-T-apostrophe-S!
(Scalawag!)"
WE NOW RETURN TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED BOARD DRAMA.
The possessive case of the word "it" is "its" with no apostrophe. The only time one needs an apostrophe is when one wants to say "it is" ("it's") or when one is referring to Cousin It's Hideout. Perhaps this song will help:
"Oh, if it's supposed to be possessive, it's just I-T-S,
but if it's supposed to be a contraction, then it's I-T-apostrophe-S!
(Scalawag!)"
WE NOW RETURN TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED BOARD DRAMA.
Then I fail to see a point to your criticism here.
You raised points in support of Carlos which do not survive examination. If you withdraw from them, fine and dandy.
If you wish to continue to support them, fine and dandy, but support them rather than post non sequiturs.
--J.D.
You raised points in support of Carlos which do not survive examination. If you withdraw from them, fine and dandy.
If you wish to continue to support them, fine and dandy, but support them rather than post non sequiturs.
--J.D.
Blue Monk
Graduate Poster
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TamiO,
Have you seen the contents of the letter?
Despite what I may think of the merits of whether he should post the letter or whether Kramer should post the letter I see no reason why, if you trust him and he trusts you, he could not reveal its contents you.
I would feel far more comfortable with your defense of his position if you knew the contents.
Consider…
You are acting on his behalf and in doing so should have the right to know what you are defending.
You can agree to not post its contents and since you trust Carlos there is no need for him to scan it or take any elaborate measures to insure its authenticity, he could simply type it in.
It does not matter even if after reading the letter you do not agree with Carlos’ interpretation if the issue is merely a matter of principle in that Carlos feels Kramer should post the letter to support what he says it contains.
The point is there is no reason on Earth why Carlos should not want to reveal the contents of the letter in its entirety to you, who are actively supporting his efforts, provided that you agree to keep it private and not post its contents.
You should ask him and there can only be two outcomes.
a) He shows you the contents which is the best option.
I will feel much better about you going out on a limb for him if you knew what was in the letter. You do not have to state whether you agree with his interpretation or not. I have no way of knowing, nor does anyone else, whether he has a valid point without seeing the letter. I do not think Carlos would alter the letter if he posted it and I certainly don’t think he would alter it if he showed it to you, especially when there is a possibility that Kramer might scan it and upload it.
Or the other option is
b) He refuses to show the contents of the letter to you.
Hopefully he will not choose this option but if he does I strongly suggest you seriously ask yourself why.
ps. I will post this on both forums
Have you seen the contents of the letter?
Despite what I may think of the merits of whether he should post the letter or whether Kramer should post the letter I see no reason why, if you trust him and he trusts you, he could not reveal its contents you.
I would feel far more comfortable with your defense of his position if you knew the contents.
Consider…
You are acting on his behalf and in doing so should have the right to know what you are defending.
You can agree to not post its contents and since you trust Carlos there is no need for him to scan it or take any elaborate measures to insure its authenticity, he could simply type it in.
It does not matter even if after reading the letter you do not agree with Carlos’ interpretation if the issue is merely a matter of principle in that Carlos feels Kramer should post the letter to support what he says it contains.
The point is there is no reason on Earth why Carlos should not want to reveal the contents of the letter in its entirety to you, who are actively supporting his efforts, provided that you agree to keep it private and not post its contents.
You should ask him and there can only be two outcomes.
a) He shows you the contents which is the best option.
I will feel much better about you going out on a limb for him if you knew what was in the letter. You do not have to state whether you agree with his interpretation or not. I have no way of knowing, nor does anyone else, whether he has a valid point without seeing the letter. I do not think Carlos would alter the letter if he posted it and I certainly don’t think he would alter it if he showed it to you, especially when there is a possibility that Kramer might scan it and upload it.
Or the other option is
b) He refuses to show the contents of the letter to you.
Hopefully he will not choose this option but if he does I strongly suggest you seriously ask yourself why.
ps. I will post this on both forums
Blue Monk said:
No. I was wondering who would be the first to post a link for me, though. Something.
I am defending Carlos' character, I am not defending what is in the letter. I thought it might be easy enough for KRAMER to do. He said he could reprint, but no. He chose to type up a summary of the letter and then tell us some dirt on Carlos. He said unnecessary things about Carlos in the OP.
Yes, I know.
surprise! Mr. Randi is rude and so is KRAMER!!Don't lose sight of motive. I am defending Carlos' character. I am trying to get to the bottom of this for him.
I want him to come to grips with the fact that the JREF was unnecessarily rude to him.
Hal even made very serious accusations about Carlos that later turned out to not be true. Hal apologised. Like when they make a mistake on page 1, the newspaper prints the retraction on page 12D.
My friend, Carlos needs to drop it. He needs to understand that no one from the JREF will ever apologise. If you are reading this Carlos - life is too short to waste it with people who hate you.
Get some pie. Talk to us about skepticism in Ecuador. The wildest things people believe there. You are welcome.
I would think it impossible to defend the character of a liar who continues to lie.
Why has Carlos not posted the letter--if it proves his charges/accusations--as he promised?
Why does he equivocate about it--trying to shift the blame to KRAMER and the JREF?
--J.D.
Why has Carlos not posted the letter--if it proves his charges/accusations--as he promised?
Why does he equivocate about it--trying to shift the blame to KRAMER and the JREF?
--J.D.
thatguywhojuggles
Graduate Poster
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Carlos? Wasn't that the fruitcake we had on here a couple of years ago? I can't believe he is still pursuing this nonsense....
Must confess I never like the Dadists. . . .
Anyways for you Sports Fans, over "there" a few posters such as My Humble Self have "encouraged" Carlos to post the full letter and be done with it.
He has not.
He has now offered to PM it to BlueMonk provided he post it here--not really a problem--AND tell him what questions he will ask KRAMMER about it.
Since BM canst see the future he cannot predict the questions!
Anyways, a few of us have reminded him that if he just POSTED the thing it would solve the problem.
He has, thus far, chosen not to do that.
--J.D.
Anyways for you Sports Fans, over "there" a few posters such as My Humble Self have "encouraged" Carlos to post the full letter and be done with it.
He has not.
He has now offered to PM it to BlueMonk provided he post it here--not really a problem--AND tell him what questions he will ask KRAMMER about it.
Since BM canst see the future he cannot predict the questions!
Anyways, a few of us have reminded him that if he just POSTED the thing it would solve the problem.
He has, thus far, chosen not to do that.
--J.D.
Blue Monk
Graduate Poster
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- Sep 5, 2002
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- 1,769
tamiO said:
Well that ought to be a neat trick.
So I suppose you're going to explain to me his five month campaign to convince others that I am a liar and a fraud is somehow virtuous. While you may very well believe I faked that video that shot him down and he may convince others of that fact do you really think you are going to convince me?
I suppose I’m supposed to go, “Well gee whiz, I was pretty sure I hadn’t faked anything but if someone of such noble integrity as TamiO thinks he’s OK then I guess I must be wrong. I guess I just don’t remember faking anything and I should consider myself honored to be the subject of a five month character assassination attempt by a person of such fine character.”
Let’s not forget that the tape put an end to a similar attack on Harter when it showed that everything he said was a big fat lie.
And though his recent charges on Renanta’s World painting me as a racist has prompted me to a considerable amount of [sarcasm]soul searching[/sarcasm] I’m afraid I must suspect an ulterior motive on the part of Carlos that, if you’ll forgive me, makes me question his character.
So now that he makes accusations against Kramer, yet won’t post his letter or give JREF permission to, I hope you’ll again forgive me being somewhat skeptical.
While you or I may never know all of the details between Carlos, JREF, Randi, Harter and/or Kramer you are talking to one of only two people who knows exactly what went on between us and whether you want to believe it or not when I popped his little bubble he resorted to every dirty trick in the book to discredit me including lying, slander and misrepresentation.
I have tried to be polite to both you and Carlos but this is as polite as I’ll ever be if you ever try to sell me this crap again.
Save your defenses of his ‘character’ for someone you who hasn’t been the target of one of his insane, protracted and thoroughly dishonest attacks.
Oddly enough, even though he did all he could to convince others that I was a liar and a fraud who deliberately tampered with evidence to the advantage of my ‘cult’ the JREF he seems to have no problem with allowing me to post his letter. What’s wrong with this picture?
Rant over.
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
tamiO said:
Indeed; KRAMER could've saved himself a lot of typing by substituting this truism.
He could have saved himself a lot of typing by pasting a copy of the letter in a reply box and hitting submit.Joshua Korosi said:
KRAMER is the author of the letter; he does not need the permission of Carlos or anyone else in order to reproduce it here.
KRAMER could go a long way in restoring some of the credibility the JREF has lost with me by posting the entire letter here and putting the matter to rest, once and for all.
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2002
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- 24,961
Re: Re: Re: Re: In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair
He can do so by stating openly and clearly exactly what he perceives as wrongdoing and how he thinks it could be rectified.
He can do so by apologizing for his own wrongdoings.
Carlos does not need somebody to speak for him, he is quite capable of speaking for himself, in good English, as we have occasionally seen, whenever writing good English has suited his purpose.
Carlos cannot post here, but he can post on the SC forum where he can reach all relevant paticipants in this apparantly everlasting drama. Carlos has also long been, and still is, free to post on the mu:nu forum, where his posts would also be read by relevant persons.
In short, Carlos has not lacked opportunities to get this matter cleared up. He has chosen not to, and I can only conclude that he does not wish to do so.
Hans
I say: If Carlos has an honor to defend, leave it to him to defend it.tamiO said:
*sniiip*
I am even open to handing over the discussion to someone else that Carlos would agree to as an objective third party. I understand that prejudices based on my recent past posting history and opinions of my vocal detractors could lead someone to believe I am not objective in this case.
What say ye?
He can do so by stating openly and clearly exactly what he perceives as wrongdoing and how he thinks it could be rectified.
He can do so by apologizing for his own wrongdoings.
Carlos does not need somebody to speak for him, he is quite capable of speaking for himself, in good English, as we have occasionally seen, whenever writing good English has suited his purpose.
Carlos cannot post here, but he can post on the SC forum where he can reach all relevant paticipants in this apparantly everlasting drama. Carlos has also long been, and still is, free to post on the mu:nu forum, where his posts would also be read by relevant persons.
In short, Carlos has not lacked opportunities to get this matter cleared up. He has chosen not to, and I can only conclude that he does not wish to do so.
Hans
Despite numerous encouragements to do so, for some reason Carlos has not posted the letter he has.
He even "ducked" from offers from others to post it--it is a bit complicated . . . he offered to PM it if a poster would tell him what questions he would ask here . . . since said poster cannot ask questions without seeing the letter first . . . Carlos was not satisfied with this.
However, after spinning about various excuses he finally posted this:
So there we have it. The letter may be posted here, and we can shoot this dead horse.
--J.D.
He even "ducked" from offers from others to post it--it is a bit complicated . . . he offered to PM it if a poster would tell him what questions he would ask here . . . since said poster cannot ask questions without seeing the letter first . . . Carlos was not satisfied with this.
However, after spinning about various excuses he finally posted this:
So there we have it. The letter may be posted here, and we can shoot this dead horse.
--J.D.
Glad that KRAMER got around and stated his position. But I wonder why KRAMER goes into details about what happened on 9/11 when the most important point should be - as seen from JREF - that there is no claim. Even if there was an UFO, it still would not qualify for the 1 million dollars because it cannot undergo a preliminary and formal test. So why bother with Carlos's application?
On the other hand, Carlos' claim is a valid topic for discussion on the forum, but the video has already been seen by many and dismissed on all accounts.
So we are back to discuss a letter that probably has importance whatsoever to any of us, and that Carlos wants others to publish, although he would be the proper one to do it.
I give up ....
On the other hand, Carlos' claim is a valid topic for discussion on the forum, but the video has already been seen by many and dismissed on all accounts.
So we are back to discuss a letter that probably has importance whatsoever to any of us, and that Carlos wants others to publish, although he would be the proper one to do it.
I give up ....