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In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair

KRAMER

Former challenge facilitator
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
1,434
I have finally found the time to offer an explanation of the circumstances behind my recent letter to Mr. Carlos Swett.

I must apologize for the delay in doing so, but as you will soon see by this posting, I very much prefer to be as specific as possible, and I wanted to give this matter the time and attention it deserved. So here we go...

A few weeks ago, I thought that I had finally completed going through the piles of prize applications I had begun working on in March upon my arrival here at JREF. I had responded to each letter in the massive backlog of inquiries (or so I thought), properly filed all "closed" applications, put all current and "open" claims in good order, and seen many applicants who were waiting for preliminary testing put in direct contact with scientific
investigators around the globe. A good job well done, or so I thought to myself. I even took myself out for sushi deluxe and patted myself on the back thrice before bed.

Then, a day or two later, I made the big move from a desk in a hallway near Randi's office door to my new digs in a semi-private area of the JREF previously occupied by Andrew Harter, my predecessor in this capacity.

That is where I found a drawer full of applications up to 5 years old that pre-dated our filing system. All were unfiled, and many seemed to have quite possibly been put aside before having been properly responded to. The horror, the horror.

Upon reading some of these claim letters, the reasons for the seeming lack of response appeared self-evident; I would say that at least 95% of these letters contained claims involving alleged demon phenomenon, cloudbusting, ghosts and apparitions,
possession, and many varied and highly creative promises of the forthcoming grisly death and mutilation of Randi and the destruction of the JREF offices from "the angry spirit of the christ in response to your rejection of HIM", and similar nonsense.

I cannot possibly slight Mr. Harter for having chosen to ignore some of these so-called "claim letters", and the fact that most of these were not accompanied by prize applications only supports MY support of Andrew in his decision to cast these aside in favor of the more reasonable and scientifically viable claims that could actually be tested (should the applicant be amiable in negotiating a mutually agreeable test protocol, the results of which could not possibly be debated).

So I approached Randi and inquired as to his feelings regarding the existence of these letters, and the problem presented by their discovery. The following was his opinion, which I repeat here verbatim:

"I don't care what the claim is, and I don't care how long ago it was received. It is our poilicy to respond to each and every inquiry, application and claim letter, regardless of its' nature, regardless of its' content, no matter how reasonable or how silly and absurd it may seem. Every letter gets a response. Do it."

I then told Randi that there was some indication (in the form of attached "stick'ems") that suggested that some of these may have been responded to already, and that some had even been accepted, processed and forwarded to investigators for preliminary testing, despite the fact that no actual files on any of these letters I had found existed. Again, Randi's response:

"Then write to the applicants and ask them if they ever received a reply from us. Just do it."

"That's a lot of letters, Randi. I'd wager that most will be returned to us with a "MOVED - NO FORWARDING ADDRESS" stamp on the front."

"Do it anyway!" was Randi's final comment on the matter.

I did as instructed, and over the next few weeks, I did indeed receive the great majority of those letters back stamped as I had suspected they would be. How very intuitive of me. Psychic, some might even say.

However, one letter I sent out was to a Mr. CARLOS SWETT, whose claim had something to do with UFO's being directly involved in the horrific 9-11 attacks. Very silly stuff.

But, as instructed, it is not my job to judge. It is my job to receive and respond to claims of a paranormal nature, no matter the content.

So, not knowing how much had transpired between Randi, JREF and Mr. Swett (much of it centering on the JREF Forums and its' members), I wrote Mr. Swett a polite letter inquiring as to whether or not he had ever received a response to his inquiry.
I believe that he has posted this letter on many alternate forums, so I will not re-print it here, as I have clearly stated the crux of its' contents.

To date, I have received no response to my inquiry, and I have recently learned that Mr. Swett has posted my letter to him in other forums, erroneously proclaiming that his case had been
"re-opened". That is not the case.

Now that I have been made aware of our previous dealings with this gentleman, it is quite clear that my letter to him was sent in error. It would certainly never have been sent, had I known of the nature of his correspondences, or of his forum postings of the past.

Hence, the letter in question was mistakenly sent, and should be ignored.

I would happily write to Mr. Swett again to advise him so, but, as I received no response to my inquiry, I feel no need to write to him again, and it is my understanding that certain inquiring forum members are already quite anxious to forward this posting to the forums in which he has chosen to advertise my mistake as an authentic re-establishing of contact between himself and JREF.

So, in conclusion and "for the record", JREF is in no way
re-opening the file on Mr. Swett, and any notion that my letter to him is an indication of any renewed interest in his "claim" would be entirely erroneous.

I hope that this posting sufficiently explains the conditions under which my letter to Mr. Swett was sent, the reasoning behind having sent it (being JREF policy and protocol), and the evidence supporting my statement that it was sent in error and should hence be wholly ignored.

Done.
 
Thanks for the fill-in.

Let's see...

You sent a letter to Carlos Swett, asking if he ever got a letter from JREF, and he claims that this means his case has been reopened?

What is it with these people? It is fascinating to observe them, but it is also puzzling. How do they ever manage to tie their own shoes? How do they handle the complexities of buying groceries? How can they function in a day-to-day life?

Do they appear normal to their surroundings, only to go off the deep end when it comes to their wacky beliefs? Are they slobbering mental cases, out on the streets?
 
Shadowy space ships are a bizzare claim but they are not paranormal, unless of course the aliens have telepathy.

Then they can file an application for the challenge just like anyone else.
 
why you afraid evidences?

Just relax

no skeptic you randi fan LOL!

Sorry make you look stupid

--J&D

P.S.














:D
 
KRAMER,

Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to address some of these things. It sounds like you have your hands full there at the JREF.


KRAMER said:
I wrote Mr. Swett a polite letter inquiring as to whether or not he had ever received a response to his inquiry

You said you would not re-print the letter here, so I am led to believe that you do have a copy of the letter you sent to Carlos.

I have been speaking with Carlos and I have heard his version of events. He tells me that you will refuse to scan the copy of the letter you sent to Carlos recently. I told him he was full of beans; of course the JREF will provide this evidence. He said you would try to "hide your evidences by now saying you should have not sent the letter" and I tried to explain that that was where he was wrong. He has some very negative impression about you and I was wondering if it was his poor communication skills.

Carlos used to be a big fan of Mr. Randi and he feels really duped. He is a notable person in Ecuador; a very talented artist. I used to live in the area and it is full of superstitions. Not the ones like we are familiar with, but truly dangerous beliefs. They mix it with Christianity and end up with a wacky religon.

He is telling everyone he can about his bad experiences with the so called skeptics. He travels all around the country and I just feel like it's a shame that he can't be made to understand.

I have gotten him to agree that he will stop badmouthing the JREF and skepticism if someone would scan and upload a picture of the letter. He claims that you are afraid to put up evidence.
:wink8:
He says his family's honor is at stake and if I can show him that he is wrong, he will accept that and it will not shame his family and he will not be bound by duty to continue to defend himself.

Let's get this guy to shut up once and for all. Upload the scan of the letter so can all see it so we can explain to him what it means.



Thank you :)
 
Re: Re: Re: In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair

no one in particular said:
Poor guy, he'd probably get a lot more stuff done if he had two of 'em.

Thanks. I am so sleepy. I looked it over real well, I thought. :o :o

edited to add: I have been hanging out with Carlos too long. He's not my sock. Really. :wink8:
 
Re: Re: In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair

tamiO said:
Let's get this guy to shut up once and for all. Upload the scan of the letter so can all see it so we can explain to him what it means.
And Carlos wouldn't just claim that that was a complete fabrication and that he never received such a letter? No, of course he wouldn't.
 
Re: Re: In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair

tamiO said:
*snip*


You said you would not re-print the letter here, so I am led to believe that you do have a copy of the letter you sent to Carlos.

I have been speaking with Carlos and I have heard his version of events. He tells me that you will refuse to scan the copy of the letter you sent to Carlos recently.

Excuse me Tami0, but you are so naive. The JREF sent a private letter to Carlos. To make it public would, legality or not, be wrong. Only Carlos can do that, and he knows it. Carlos has a long history of making impossible demands and then claiming that the other part is witholding information.

I told him he was full of beans; of course the JREF will provide this evidence. He said you would try to "hide your evidences by now saying you should have not sent the letter" and I tried to explain that that was where he was wrong.

No, he is not wrong, technically. The JREF should not make a private letter public, and anyhow, there is no reason to do it. Think again: What is so interesting about that letter?

He has some very negative impression about you and I was wondering if it was his poor communication skills.

I think it is something different. You see, Carlos can compose quite complex English writing if it suits him. It just usually does not suit him.

Carlos used to be a big fan of Mr. Randi and he feels really duped.

But, how is that Randi's fault?

He is a notable person in Ecuador; a very talented artist.

Maybe, but what has that to do with anything?

I used to live in the area and it is full of superstitions. Not the ones like we are familiar with, but truly dangerous beliefs. They mix it with Christianity and end up with a wacky religon.

Well, that could explain some things.

He is telling everyone he can about his bad experiences with the so called skeptics. He travels all around the country and I just feel like it's a shame that he can't be made to understand.

Oh, it is. But you can't keep fighting a lost case.

I have gotten him to agree that he will stop badmouthing the JREF and skepticism if someone would scan and upload a picture of the letter. He claims that you are afraid to put up evidence.
:wink8:

Even if it was done, he would just make a new demand. This has happened before. Way back he started to say that all he wanted was a mention in Randi's weekly commentary about his challenge claim. Hal Bidlack promised to talk with Randi about it, but then it was suddenly scans of his letters and a lot more. Nothing will satisfy him. In over a year of discussing, he never budges an inch. What makes you think he will do that now?

He says his family's honor is at stake and if I can show him that he is wrong, he will accept that and it will not shame his family and he will not be bound by duty to continue to defend himself.

Maybe Carlos has made it a question of his family's honor, but how is that the JREF's problem?

Let's get this guy to shut up once and for all. Upload the scan of the letter so can all see it so we can explain to him what it means.

You can't make him shut up. Carlos loves to recruit people to "speak for him". This is just one big deja vú. Let Carlos come forward himself with any propositions. Let HIM state clearly and unambigously what he wants, and maybe people would want to talk.



Thank you :)

Hans
 
This is the most relevant letter:

We have received your application and video tape. I've seen this tape before and pointed out what was taking place to others.

You have made two assumptions, one following the other. Both are incorrect.

Your first assumption is that the object comes from behind the second tower. This is not the case. I've gone frame by frame through a copy of this video that's available on the Internet. You can clearly see that the object is IN FRONT OF THE TOWERS when you look at it frame by frame. The object is dark and difficult to see at some points against the smoke, but it is there. A bird could certainly be the culprit.

You have no claim. There is nothing supernatural taking place.

Andrew Harter
Researcher
James Randi Educational Foundation

if he has made it a "claim of family honor" that is his own bloody fault.

--J.D.
 
Exactly! And about the "hat-shaped" thing. If you look at the clip where that cutout is from here:

http://www.inlex.net/bluemonk/nonsense/images/all_frames.jpg

-- you will see that there is a strong edge distortion. It is very evident on the edge of the tower where the edge, instead of just shifting from the gray of the tower to the blue of the sky goes through several dark/light transitions. This is either a result of refclections in a mismatched signal cable or the repeated application of an edge enhancement algorithm. Anyhow, it transforms the smudged bird shape to something weird that could be interpreted as UFO shaped.

Hans
 
Hello MCr_Hans!

why you not skeptic-Halfan?

Thanks

J&D












:D




Anyways, perhaps someday, someone can do a dissertation on why he tied so much emotional effort to this. Did he happen to see the thing and get excited? Then why did he become so enthusiastic? Given his rude opening salvo to Randi methinks he felt the need to "bring down" someone else. That is pretty much his motivation towards others who do not support him.

The motivations of his lap-dog is anyone's guess.

--J.D.
 
Re: Re: Re: In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair

MRC_Hans said:
You can't make him shut up. Carlos loves to recruit people to "speak for him". This is just one big deja vú. Let Carlos come forward himself with any propositions. Let HIM state clearly and unambigously what he wants, and maybe people would want to talk.

Hans

Hi Hans,

I volunteered, he didn't ask me to do anything. My post was to KRAMER, but I don't mind discussing things until KRAMER answers.

I totally understand that the application Carlos submitted over a year ago has been investigated to the satisfaction of the JREF and the JREF will not do any further research into the matter. I have no problem with this. I suspect Carlos fully understands this, too. I also suspect that he has a problem with it.

My post to KRAMER asking him to reprint the letter here or link to/attach an scanned image of it so we can all read it. KRAMER has expressed a willingness to devote as much time and energy as it deserves. I ask him to consider this request to disspell any negative speculation that has been generated by the lack of evidence from the JREF.

Carlos has been banned from the JREF forum and probably does not want to be reinstated unless the JREF acknowledges they were wrong to have banned him in the first place. So, that's a whole can of worms on the shelf.

People would most certainly "want to talk" if Carlos were to be reinstated as a member and allowed to post about the issue. He has developed a virtual cult following of people who are focused on the wrong aspect of this whole issue. If Carlos were to be reinstated so he could state his case unambiguously, the Anti-Carlos Coalition will make too much noise and only serve to possibly distract KRAMER from the actual question being posed.

I asked Carlos if I could try a diplomatic approach and see if we can settle some issues, sum up positions clearly and evaluate all the evidence as objectively as possible. The first thing to do is present all the evidence to the public.

We should be working towards a "treaty," if you will, and finding closure to this long drawn out contention that has been festering in the JREF community and spread where ever Carlos goes from Ecuador to Cyberia and all points in between.

We can get started toward peace if KRAMER agrees to share a reprint of the letter he recently sent to Carlos. I would like it if people refrained from adding their opinions of Carlos and the videotape or the accepted fact that the case has been officially dismissed. I understand that the OP invites many discussions, but it would be nice if we could work together here.

I am willing to open a new thread for diplomatic discussions and you guys can get back to making fun of Carlos and his paranormal hat.

I am even open to handing over the discussion to someone else that Carlos would agree to as an objective third party. I understand that prejudices based on my recent past posting history and opinions of my vocal detractors could lead someone to believe I am not objective in this case.

What say ye? :)
 
I'm sorry, why does there have to be a "diplomatic" solution ?

Surely the discussion could be carried out to everyone's satisfaction on other boards. Re-instating Carlos will IMO merely re-open the debate to no good purpose and serve to form a plaform from which Carlos can state that JREF was forced to come back to the table because of the power of his arguments.
 
I still don't understand why Carlos can't just reprint the letter himself. Will the letter somehow change if he posts it, rather than "KRAMER"? He also refuses to explain why he can not post it, other than because "he wants Kramer to post it". And he's been asked many times.

Since he's been throwing a tantrum for some time now, my advice also is to just scan and post the darn thing so he will stop. What harm could it do?
 
Re: Re: Re: In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair

MRC_Hans said:
Maybe Carlos has made it a question of his family's honor, but how is that the JREF's problem?

Hans

It's a PR problem for the JREF whether they recognise it or not and an opportunity for commanding respect.

It is the very reason Carlos will not simply allow the JREF and his detractors to make personal attacks and continue to libel him without replying to each and every post that he finds personal attacks and libel to defending himself.

Both sides read things into the other sides posts. I think if we look at all the evidence, piece by piece, I firmly believe we can all come to an agreement and the forum can continue without this cloud hanging over us.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: In CONCLUSION of the Carlos Swett Affair

tamiO said:
I think if we look at all the evidence, piece by piece, I firmly believe we can all come to an agreement and the forum can continue without this cloud hanging over us.

Which forum?
 

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