I Hate Windows 8.

[quadraginta]

Step One: Buy New OS.
Step Two: Fix it. Customize until it resembles old OS.
Step Three: Gedoffa my lawn.

FTFU

 

[quadraginta]

Yes indeed. They did it because they were stupid ********. On the bright side, several companies* are now selling new computers with Windows 7 installed instead of Windows H8. So sorry you have missed the threads priorly - especially if in the last 2 or 4 weeks.

Note, you will likely get posts from people who love it. They are Windows fans and love that it matches their phones. Windows loves that too. If I had learned about computers on my phone, I even might. I didn't. I don't.

*Amazon, Dell, HP.....

Wow. A double whammy.

Condescending and dismissive at the same time.

Let's see. I like Win8 just fine.

I do not, nor have I ever owned or even so much as held a Windows phone.

I was learning about computers long before Windows was even a gleam in anyone's eye. My first MS product was DOS 2.11. My first computers were before that.

I have an HP which shipped with Win8. I could have gotten it with Win7. I have never even had the slightest desire to downgrade to Win7. Before or after.

Did you have anything else to pretend to be superior about?

 

[Wowbagger]

Besides, doesn't it essentially mean that rather than having one app running which is draining your resources, you've got a whole bunch of them running, regardless of whether you're currently interested in that particular bit of information or not?

To be fair, the memory and power management of Windows 8 is optimized for that sort of thing.

The inner guts of the OS are not bad. It's really only the UI that gets on most people's nerves.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The actual point being, why keep trying to use a mouse, when fingers are more effective and direct at accomplishing the interface? It made more sense to equip my desktop with a touch screen than to use touch screens for some things (phones, tablets) and mouse, track-point, etc., for desktop.

I paid ~$250 for a 24" HD touchscreen that works great for my needs.

I used a trackball mouse and can move around the entire screen while resting my arm on a table. That's why I use a mouse.

 

[quadraginta]

I could not imagine what this is like for a senior using this for the 1st time. I'm 35 and adapting to change is tough.

If the senior is using a computer for the first time it wouldn't make any difference. It'll be unfamiliar no matter what.

If the senior has been using computers for very long they should be used to change.

This senior has been using them since the seventies. Changing from DOS to Windows was a hell of a lot more inconvenient than changing from Win7 to Win8, or even from XP to Win8 (which is what I did).

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

It led to this senior using some choice phrases concerning the idiot mother raping ******** at Microsoft who ruined his new laptop with their **** - when he was fine with Vista and Win7 and could use them wonderfully to do his research, downloading etc. Adapting to rationally introduced change is not a problem, adapting to your computer being designed like a smartphone is. Though had the reverse been the case I might well use a smart phone on rare occasion.

Bolding mine... You were fine with Vista?!

What sort of weirdo are you?

XP and Win 7 were fine. Vista was a bigger abortion of an operating system than Windows 8 is. At least most of Windows 8's 'problems' can be understood if you assume it's designed for a touchscreen and to try and catch up on the whole 'apps' market approach.

 

[quadraginta]

I used a trackball mouse and can move around the entire screen while resting my arm on a table. That's why I use a mouse.

I love my Trackman. I've been using one since they first came out. Ever since I got the wireless model I've been in pointing device heaven. I can put it down wherever is convenient. Beside me on the couch, on a pile of books, on top of the cat ...

Onliest problem is I feel crippled trying to use a regular mouse. I look like I've never been in front of a computer before when I use the catalog computers at the library.

I'm prone to agree that use of a touch screen in some situations is problematic. I use a wireless keyboard as well as the Trackman, and generally sit back with the keyboard in my lap and the Trackman somewhere close by. The screen of my laptop (sitting on a table) is about three or four feet away. Definitely not within reach.

OTOH, I love it with my tablet and phone. After all, my hands are already there.

Of course I don't have to use Win8 as a touch screen OS. I've never had a bit of trouble using a pointing device with it, so its touchscreen capabilities are more of an adjunct than a problem.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

To be fair, the memory and power management of Windows 8 is optimized for that sort of thing.

The inner guts of the OS are not bad. It's really only the UI that gets on most people's nerves.

But what I'm questioning is whether the OS could equally be optimised for, say, running an email client. Seems to me that the difference would be negligible anyway, given how little processor power is taken by an email client but, even so, are live tile necessarily and inherently less of a resources hog? Couldn't an app that did the same thing use the same amount of resources? And have the advantage of not having to have apps that you're not using also using resources?

 

[elbe]

But what I'm questioning is whether the OS could equally be optimised for, say, running an email client. Seems to me that the difference would be negligible anyway, given how little processor power is taken by an email client but, even so, are live tile necessarily and inherently less of a resources hog? Couldn't an app that did the same thing use the same amount of resources? And have the advantage of not having to have apps that you're not using also using resources?

Outlook is actually a bit of a hog; on my work machines it is almost always the biggest memory drain of any application we run. I haven't looked into it but if the tiles are pulling outlook info some part of outlook must still be running, I assume it's not nearly as much as the what the full interface takes, but I doubt it would be completely off.

 

[Wowbagger]

But what I'm questioning is whether the OS could equally be optimised for, say, running an email client. Seems to me that the difference would be negligible anyway, given how little processor power is taken by an email client but, even so, are live tile necessarily and inherently less of a resources hog? Couldn't an app that did the same thing use the same amount of resources? And have the advantage of not having to have apps that you're not using also using resources?

Most of the Win8 Modern UI apps are stateless: They don't actually run, or take up resources, most of the time, even when it looks like they are running in the background.

The OS can suspend their operations, and activate them on a timer as needed. The essential portions of the state of the app can be kept on disk when it is suspended, instead of in RAM.

Most of those background services could be very light. But, when you add their total impact up, they could become performance clogging without that architecture, on a tablet machine. Death by a million pin pricks, and all that.

Outlook is actually a bit of a hog; on my work machines it is almost always the biggest memory drain of any application we run. I haven't looked into it but if the tiles are pulling outlook info some part of outlook must still be running, I assume it's not nearly as much as the what the full interface takes, but I doubt it would be completely off.

Outlook, however, tends to be a bigger hog than most other e-mail clients.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

But, again, is there any reason the same functionality couldn't be incorporated into an email client? Maybe have a "tile mode"? Is there any reason an OS can only be designed to have tiles running like that and not apps?

 

[elbe]

But, again, is there any reason the same functionality couldn't be incorporated into an email client? Maybe have a "tile mode"? Is there any reason an OS can only be designed to have tiles running like that and not apps?

I guess you could but Outlook, like the rest of the Office suite, is just bristling with features so a sort of feed only interface is probably not all that in demand. If anything the tiles seem more useful for webmail accounts where you can get the feed without having your browser open. I doubt, for my work account for example, that I could funtion with just a feed, I need access to the full interface but that's just how we use outlook (we often have one whole monitor dedicated to just showing it in fullscreen).

 

[Wowbagger]

But, again, is there any reason the same functionality couldn't be incorporated into an email client? Maybe have a "tile mode"? Is there any reason an OS can only be designed to have tiles running like that and not apps?

Actually, the apps are running like that. The tiles are merely the UI element displaying stuff about them.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I guess you could but Outlook, like the rest of the Office suite, is just bristling with features so a sort of feed only interface is probably not all that in demand. If anything the tiles seem more useful for webmail accounts where you can get the feed without having your browser open. I doubt, for my work account for example, that I could funtion with just a feed, I need access to the full interface but that's just how we use outlook (we often have one whole monitor dedicated to just showing it in fullscreen).

Presumably, were this to be an app in its own right you'd click on it and the full UI would pop up. As I assume happens if you click on the live tile.

Seems to me that if you do want just a feed that you can keep an eye on while you get on with other stuff, then a small window that does just that which you can resize however you want (a square in the corner, a thin strip all the way across the top, etc.) and tell to always be on top would be far superior to a tile in the start menu.

Actually, the apps are running like that. The tiles are merely the UI element displaying stuff about them.

Then it should certainly be a better option to only have active the ones that you actually want to be active at any given time.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Microsoft has been steadily improving windows 8 so it doesn't alienate desktop users AS MUCH which I give them kudos for. And now I don't have that many problems with it (I readded the start menu as well. All said and done, M$ ****'d up with this OS, though 8's not nearly as bas as it started, and my experience with vista initially was much worse and way more glitchy.

Point is... get what you want. I don't think 8's the disaster anymore that it started out as but the decision to go with a more familiar OS is to whoever prefers it. I shouldn't think someone's personal preference with the OS should be rocket science, especially since 7 is still reasonably good if 8's not the right thing for you. I'm a tech geek when it comes to sparkly interfaces, so I'm not exactly an "average user" but the sorts of curbs put out by the OS changes and how people would be alienated is understandable

 

[Wowbagger]

Then it should certainly be a better option to only have active the ones that you actually want to be active at any given time.

You can shut off the "Live" aspect of almost all of the Live Tiles. It's not an intuitive option. But it does exist.

Of course: I like Android's Widgets approach better. It starts with inactive icons, but you can add interactive bits where you want to; rather than Win 8's approach which starts off like a pack of screaming children, with less opportunity for interactivity than Android's widgets, even where you might want it.

...But, at least the tiles can be turned off.

 

[Meed]

Huh? Adobe Reader is any size you set it to.

I wasn't talking about Adobe Reader. Windows 8 (not sure about 8.1) has full screen apps for picture viewing, playing audio files and reading pdfs that are set as defaults. It also has non fullscreen apps for pictures and audio files, but they aren't set as default. I'm not sure it has an alternative pdf reader. So for anyone who hates full screen programs, any reader that isn't automatically full screen would be preferable (note the difference between full screen and maximized).

I think a lot of the hate Windows 8 has gotten is due to people not knowing that they can change their default program settings. Of course most of the rest of it comes from the start menu.

 

[RayG]

Windows 8 reminds me somewhat of the AOL interface, back when I was forced to use it. And yes, I said forced. If I wanted high-speed internet my only choice at that time was AOL, and whenever my browser opened I would be force fed the kind of trivial fluff I abhor. I both wrote and called AOL to let them know I was not interested one iota in what Jennifer Lopez was wearing, or who Jennifer Aniston was dating, or any of their other nauseating celebrity 'news'. If I recall correctly, my options were sort of like choosing between country music or hymns, even though I can't stand either.

So, here I am, many years later, with a brand new Windows 8 computer. Let's see what's on the stupid touch screen. I say stupid because I'm using a desktop with a mouse, don't have a touchscreen monitor, and have no intention of buying a touchscreen monitor. Hmmm... what do I have...

Hey, look at that, a box with XBOX Microsoft Mahjong... too bad I don't have an XBOX, nor do I intend to purchase one.

A box with Microsoft Office... trial version only I'm betting, as I didn't purchase it, nor do I intend to.

A box with shifting images and the words "Derby-Style Mint Juleps". Not even sure what the heck that is. I don't drink mint juleps and have no desire to make, drink, or even look at a derby-style one.

A box with a picture captioned: "How accurate is your pedometer?" WTF?? I don't have a pedometer and don't intend to purchase one either.

A box that just says 'Reading List'. I'm pretty sure I'll never, ever, ever click on it.

A box that says 'Fresh Paint'. Is that a shortcut to the old Paint program, or is it an invitation to change the desktop background with a new coat of paint? I'm not sure, but I don't care either way, I'll never be clicking on it anyway.

A box titled 'Camera'. That would be helpful if I had one, or cared to have one. I don't and I won't.

Oh isn't this nauseating... another box that says 'Photos', which then scrolls through a number of pics on my hard drive, non-stop, I guess to remind me that I have those pics on my computer. If I had a co-worker doing that with pictures of their kids, or their latest trip every time I looked at them, I'd be asking for a new cubicle. Or their pictures would mysteriously disappear one day. I don't need the constant reminder, thanks but no thanks.

Oh and here's one I can't fathom... a weather box showing the temperature in Washington DC. Washington DC? I don't even live in the US.

There do appear to be some useful boxes at first glance, but looks can be deceiving. The 'Mail' and "Calendar" ones for example. Clicking on those however, only brought up screens asking me to switch to a Microsoft account. Don't have one don't want one, so I clicked on cancel. I was left on a completely white screen with the words:

"Mail/Calendar
To use mail/calendar, sign in"

That was it. No buttons, and no obvious interface whatsoever, except for the words 'sign in' in blue. The only way off that screen was to find one of the hidden areas of the screen by moving my mouse around.

Thankfully I've tweaked my system so that I never see that horrible interface unless I choose to. Do I see advantages for someone who can't live without social media, instant gratification, and the latest fluff? Sure, but it certainly didn't make ~me~ like it.

And though I'm nearly 60, I'm no newbie when it comes to computers. I too started out with DOS, have six systems presently networked in my home, and normally enjoy tinkering with a new version of Windows when it rolls out. Not this time. What should have been enjoyable was instead irritating and frustrating.

RayG

 

[quadraginta]

Windows 8 reminds me somewhat of the AOL interface, back when I was forced to use it. And yes, I said forced. If I wanted high-speed internet my only choice at that time was AOL, and whenever my browser opened I would be force fed the kind of trivial fluff I abhor. I both wrote and called AOL to let them know I was not interested one iota in what Jennifer Lopez was wearing, or who Jennifer Aniston was dating, or any of their other nauseating celebrity 'news'. If I recall correctly, my options were sort of like choosing between country music or hymns, even though I can't stand either.

So, here I am, many years later, with a brand new Windows 8 computer. Let's see what's on the stupid touch screen. I say stupid because I'm using a desktop with a mouse, don't have a touchscreen monitor, and have no intention of buying a touchscreen monitor. Hmmm... what do I have...

Hey, look at that, a box with XBOX Microsoft Mahjong... too bad I don't have an XBOX, nor do I intend to purchase one.

A box with Microsoft Office... trial version only I'm betting, as I didn't purchase it, nor do I intend to.

A box with shifting images and the words "Derby-Style Mint Juleps". Not even sure what the heck that is. I don't drink mint juleps and have no desire to make, drink, or even look at a derby-style one.

A box with a picture captioned: "How accurate is your pedometer?" WTF?? I don't have a pedometer and don't intend to purchase one either.

A box that just says 'Reading List'. I'm pretty sure I'll never, ever, ever click on it.

A box that says 'Fresh Paint'. Is that a shortcut to the old Paint program, or is it an invitation to change the desktop background with a new coat of paint? I'm not sure, but I don't care either way, I'll never be clicking on it anyway.

A box titled 'Camera'. That would be helpful if I had one, or cared to have one. I don't and I won't.

Oh isn't this nauseating... another box that says 'Photos', which then scrolls through a number of pics on my hard drive, non-stop, I guess to remind me that I have those pics on my computer. If I had a co-worker doing that with pictures of their kids, or their latest trip every time I looked at them, I'd be asking for a new cubicle. Or their pictures would mysteriously disappear one day. I don't need the constant reminder, thanks but no thanks.

Oh and here's one I can't fathom... a weather box showing the temperature in Washington DC. Washington DC? I don't even live in the US.

There do appear to be some useful boxes at first glance, but looks can be deceiving. The 'Mail' and "Calendar" ones for example. Clicking on those however, only brought up screens asking me to switch to a Microsoft account. Don't have one don't want one, so I clicked on cancel. I was left on a completely white screen with the words:

"Mail/Calendar
To use mail/calendar, sign in"

That was it. No buttons, and no obvious interface whatsoever, except for the words 'sign in' in blue. The only way off that screen was to find one of the hidden areas of the screen by moving my mouse around.

Thankfully I've tweaked my system so that I never see that horrible interface unless I choose to. Do I see advantages for someone who can't live without social media, instant gratification, and the latest fluff? Sure, but it certainly didn't make ~me~ like it.

And though I'm nearly 60, I'm no newbie when it comes to computers. I too started out with DOS, have six systems presently networked in my home, and normally enjoy tinkering with a new version of Windows when it rolls out. Not this time. What should have been enjoyable was instead irritating and frustrating.

RayG

If you were studying them all so carefully how did you miss the one that was labelled "Desktop"?

It was in the very first column when I first cranked up Win8 and saw the "Metro" window. I clicked on it, and used my own mail and calender software. Also photos, etc.


That's "Desktop", one click away. The extra click never seemed like a great trial. I could take burden.

Until 8.1 offered a default to the desktop I just clicked on that whenever my machine booted up. Since I hardly ever turn it off I rarely ever saw those boxes that you apparently spent so much time analyzing. Unless I wanted to, that is.

Seems like an unhealthy fascination to me. I'm not sure why you bothered.

 

[Explorer]

I could not imagine what this is like for a senior using this for the 1st time. I'm 35 and adapting to change is tough.

I'm 69, and adapted to it very quickly moving on from XP professional.

Quite like it now that I am used to it, and wouldn't want to revert to XP again. Perhaps it is because Windows 7 completely passed me by.