Jambo, we are never going to agree about Nina. You believe one thing, I believe another.
I personally feel that if these abilities exist we will see them again. I await that time. Until then I don't feel there is enough evidence to convince me.
(By the way - where did you see the other videos - are they generally available?)
Where did you see the orbs floating about? Was it day or night - again, had you just woken up?
As for the medium telling you you had the gift - I hate to break this to you but they say that to everyone who appears interested. They have said it to me before.
How has this gift ever manifested itself to you? Can you predict the future or read minds or anything? In what way do you feel you have any unusual abilities?
He was saying to one girl "You have a dolphin personality" and she was agreeing enthusiastically. He never explained what this meant. But she did say that she liked dolphins so it made sense to her. (who doesn't like dolphins?)
He made us choose twigs that represented our personalities, then told us things about ourselves that he already knew. Yet for some reason everyone else was reacting as though this was incredibly insightful. He knew all of us already! And all the things he was telling us I already knew about everyone else there and so did he.
I came out thinking that I couldn't understand what the other people there were doing or why they were behaving like that.
I knew then it wasn't for me. Whatever I was looking for I knew I wouldn't find it there.
The more you read about these things the more you come to doubt that there is anything really paranormal happening.
I've slept in 'haunted' hotels, mansions and houses. Seen nothing. Someone I was with saw a figure coming out of the fireplace in the mansion. A year later he finally admitted he made it up. Why? What was the point?
I've done Ouija boards and tarot cards. Was told nothing useful.
The scariest thing I've encountered is when our cat jumped onto the piano keyboard in the middle of the night. (That's absolutely horrible by the way)
The exciting and mysterious is exactly that. Humans love to tell stories and will embellish them almost instantly. But none of these stories prove anything - they are just stories.
If you know anyone who has these abilities, please let them demonstrate it and make believers of us all. But while the excuses continue you have to understand our scepticism.
I personally feel that if these abilities exist we will see them again. I await that time. Until then I don't feel there is enough evidence to convince me.
(By the way - where did you see the other videos - are they generally available?)
What do you mean by 'a man in my house'? Was it when you had just woken up and he was in your room?
Where did you see the orbs floating about? Was it day or night - again, had you just woken up?
As for the medium telling you you had the gift - I hate to break this to you but they say that to everyone who appears interested. They have said it to me before.
How has this gift ever manifested itself to you? Can you predict the future or read minds or anything? In what way do you feel you have any unusual abilities?
I looked around and listened to what the leader was saying to everyone and couldn't quite understand why they were listening to him. To start with everything he was saying was generalised and fairly random, yet everyone was responding as though he were imparting universal truths.
He was saying to one girl "You have a dolphin personality" and she was agreeing enthusiastically. He never explained what this meant. But she did say that she liked dolphins so it made sense to her. (who doesn't like dolphins?)
He made us choose twigs that represented our personalities, then told us things about ourselves that he already knew. Yet for some reason everyone else was reacting as though this was incredibly insightful. He knew all of us already! And all the things he was telling us I already knew about everyone else there and so did he.
I came out thinking that I couldn't understand what the other people there were doing or why they were behaving like that.
I knew then it wasn't for me. Whatever I was looking for I knew I wouldn't find it there.
The more you read about these things the more you come to doubt that there is anything really paranormal happening.
I've slept in 'haunted' hotels, mansions and houses. Seen nothing. Someone I was with saw a figure coming out of the fireplace in the mansion. A year later he finally admitted he made it up. Why? What was the point?
I've done Ouija boards and tarot cards. Was told nothing useful.
The scariest thing I've encountered is when our cat jumped onto the piano keyboard in the middle of the night. (That's absolutely horrible by the way)
The exciting and mysterious is exactly that. Humans love to tell stories and will embellish them almost instantly. But none of these stories prove anything - they are just stories.
If you know anyone who has these abilities, please let them demonstrate it and make believers of us all. But while the excuses continue you have to understand our scepticism.
Dr Adequate
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When did you speak to Randi?jambo372 said:
Or if you are referring to his writings available on the web, please give a link; if to a book, give a reference.
I find it very hard to imagine someone saying this even as a lie, because of course the sceptics' case involves her using a thread which could not be easily seen. Clearly she wasn't using bright red yarn. So maybe he said something else.
Dr Adequate
James Randi sent me an email - and I didn't misinterpret what he said he capitalised CLEARLY.
Ashles
I don't know if the videos are publically available - it was a documentary I watched about psychics which mentioned Nina as a mystery case and showed a few films of her - it had pictures of other psychics as well.
The man was in my room - I had just got up out of bed but had been awake for about an hour.
I see the orbs all the time - but I just took it for granted before I got into spiritualism. I've also saw auras since I was a toddler but I didn't actually - like orbs - know what they were before I read about them and started in spiritualism. I've tried psychometry and giving readings for a laugh also - I must admit I occasionally used some cold reading when I had difficulty but at other times I scared myself and others by my accuracy. This along with what the medium said encourages me to join development circle.
I can't predict the future - well I have used tarot cards and tea leaves to predict things but I just do it for fun and inspiration and don't take it very seriously.
Read minds - no. I think just about everybody has probably experienced some telepathy but not to a very significant level except in the select few cases.
I think that any psychic experiences I've had I'd consider to be more mediumistic than precognitive or telepathic.
I have tried some psychokinesis as well but I gave up because I was rarely ever successful even with lighter objects.
I used a ouija board once and it will be the first, last and every time I try it.
As for the development circle - beginners can try generalised stuff and get more accurate later - just to establish confidence.
James Randi sent me an email - and I didn't misinterpret what he said he capitalised CLEARLY.
Ashles
I don't know if the videos are publically available - it was a documentary I watched about psychics which mentioned Nina as a mystery case and showed a few films of her - it had pictures of other psychics as well.
The man was in my room - I had just got up out of bed but had been awake for about an hour.
I see the orbs all the time - but I just took it for granted before I got into spiritualism. I've also saw auras since I was a toddler but I didn't actually - like orbs - know what they were before I read about them and started in spiritualism. I've tried psychometry and giving readings for a laugh also - I must admit I occasionally used some cold reading when I had difficulty but at other times I scared myself and others by my accuracy. This along with what the medium said encourages me to join development circle.
I can't predict the future - well I have used tarot cards and tea leaves to predict things but I just do it for fun and inspiration and don't take it very seriously.
Read minds - no. I think just about everybody has probably experienced some telepathy but not to a very significant level except in the select few cases.
I think that any psychic experiences I've had I'd consider to be more mediumistic than precognitive or telepathic.
I have tried some psychokinesis as well but I gave up because I was rarely ever successful even with lighter objects.
I used a ouija board once and it will be the first, last and every time I try it.
As for the development circle - beginners can try generalised stuff and get more accurate later - just to establish confidence.
Yet again you are relying on evidence from a documentary you can't even rmember the name of. This is hardly convincing.
For a start it's hard to tell how well you actually remember it.
Secondly they do edit documentary films to show what they want to show. They may have had other footage in which trickery might be visible so they choose not to show it. Documentaries are about ratings - they are often (particularly with regards to these sort of subjects) not a good source for factual information.
If I were trying to convince you opf the existence of something jambo I would not cite a documentary I saw ages ago. I would cite real research that could be read, studied and repeated.
So you had been asleep and wolen up - time is very subjective at these sort of times, and presumably you've heard of waking dreams and the like.
If you see orbs all the time you need to get your vision checked. If you see them sometimes, it would be interesting to know when, and what you think this means. I would still get your vision checked.
However, like the auras I really think this is your imagination running away with you.
You show a classic, 'if I believe one ability exists I must have many abilities'.
You can communicate with the dead, see auras, see orbs (what are they, spirits? souls?) and even claim some telekinesis for good measure.
"Rarely ever successful" means that you did have some success - is this true? You could move objects solely with the power of your mind?
In my opinion you sound like a highly suggestible person who is convinced by all abilities you hear about, and who trusts his memory implicitly, even when it is vague and perhaps incorrect. Also staring at anyone and wanting to see an aura will make you often see one - it's an effect of our visual processing.
I'm afraid that development circle will turn out to be a bit of a waste of time for you - you may find that your 'abilities' which seem to work well in this group, will not really work in the real world.
However you don't seem to be in contact with any sceptical people at the moment - only a group of believers, so it is a little hard to suggest anyone you can talk to for some objective tests.
Dr Adequate
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Please post the email so that I can read it.jambo372 said:
Ashles
I already get my vision checked.
Why would they remove footage revealing trickery ?
The documentary was sceptically based and exposing fake psychics was the whole subject. They had a magician pose as a psychic at various venues to see if people could detect his cold reading and also had him pretend to be telekinetic in front of a pub audience using the Vinogradova technique. The program featured many sceptics like Richard Wiseman.
It was NOT a dream.
Wanting to see auras ?
I didn't want to see auras - I didn't even know they were auras up until a few years ago but I've seen them my whole life.
I fixed a broken watch using the Uri Geller technique and once managed to move a pen a few inches across a level table.
Dr Adequate
I deleted that email long ago.
I already get my vision checked.
Why would they remove footage revealing trickery ?
The documentary was sceptically based and exposing fake psychics was the whole subject. They had a magician pose as a psychic at various venues to see if people could detect his cold reading and also had him pretend to be telekinetic in front of a pub audience using the Vinogradova technique. The program featured many sceptics like Richard Wiseman.
It was NOT a dream.
Wanting to see auras ?
I didn't want to see auras - I didn't even know they were auras up until a few years ago but I've seen them my whole life.
I fixed a broken watch using the Uri Geller technique and once managed to move a pen a few inches across a level table.
Dr Adequate
I deleted that email long ago.
And the optician said...?
Okay - so you used a technique used by a known fraud who you yourself admit is a fraud. And yet you still believe it was paranormal?
And I know you won't accept it, but pens do roll across tables. Tables are irregular surfaces.
How could you have moved a pen once, yet you can not even move (for example) a small ripped off piece of postage stamp now? Answer - pens are circular and roll with the tiniest imperfections in a table level.
And as for why documentaries remove bits of footage, well, they aren't always about pure factual reporting. In a programme like that they would want to counterbalance it with the absolute best possible footage they could to demonstrate the claims that people make. Obviously the best they could come up with was Nina's footage. And they will always edit it to look how they want it to look. There's not a lot of point in showing long period where nothing much happens. Rest assured the footage you saw is the absolute best footage ever available anywhere in the world for telekinesis. Because there doesn't seem to be any other. Modern TV cameras are just to good.
This is how TV programmes work. They edit them how they like. Take Fahrenheit 9/11 for example - many people are up in arms about Michael Moore misrpresenting the facts. But he has simply shown us facts in his chosen order edited in his way to give us a distinct message. Somone else could have edited the facts in a totally diffeent way and created the opposite message. But neither has lied at any point.
Documentaries are not considered evidence for anything in the same way that scientific testing is.
Who said anything about a hole in your eye? If you go to the optician and say you are seeing orbs all the time they would not say "Well your vision seems fine you've got no holes" they would send you to a specialist. Are you telling me you have told an optician that you see orbs a lot and they pronounced your vision to be fine? And not sent you to see anyone else?
Please tell me you're joking.
If James Randi had done it would you still claim it was paranormal? Geller - illusionist, Randi, illusionist. Difference?
They can roll too.
How come you only had this ability for one brief moment?
Have you, by any chance, spent a lot of time concentrating hard and staring at small objects trying to move them? So when one does move, it MUST have been you? Yes?
Keep looking for the signs and you will find them. Our brain tries so hard to form patterns and meanings from all stimulus that we see them when they are not there.
Dr Adequate
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So... the email which you used to have, which proves that Randi is a liar and a charlatan... you just threw it away?jambo372 said:
Or did you just make it up?
Ashles
I repeat I do NOT have a hole in my eye. She said there was nothing wrong with my vision.
If you put the pen on a level surface and guard it from air-currents and don't touch it then it won't move - assuming it's not a plain cylindrical one. I don't know why it lasted only a moment - I had a headache for a few days afterwards though which also put me off.
I wasn't using fraud - I know what I was doing.
Dr Adequate
I deleted the email.
I didn't make it up.
I repeat I do NOT have a hole in my eye. She said there was nothing wrong with my vision.
If you put the pen on a level surface and guard it from air-currents and don't touch it then it won't move - assuming it's not a plain cylindrical one. I don't know why it lasted only a moment - I had a headache for a few days afterwards though which also put me off.
I wasn't using fraud - I know what I was doing.
Dr Adequate
I deleted the email.
I didn't make it up.
Ashles
I repeat I do NOT have a hole in my eye. She said there was nothing wrong with my vision.
If you put the pen on a level surface and guard it from air-currents and don't touch it then it won't move - assuming it's not a plain cylindrical one. I don't know why it lasted only a moment - I had a headache for a few days afterwards though which also put me off.
I wasn't using fraud - I know what I was doing.
Dr Adequate
I deleted the email.
I didn't make it up.
I repeat I do NOT have a hole in my eye. She said there was nothing wrong with my vision.
If you put the pen on a level surface and guard it from air-currents and don't touch it then it won't move - assuming it's not a plain cylindrical one. I don't know why it lasted only a moment - I had a headache for a few days afterwards though which also put me off.
I wasn't using fraud - I know what I was doing.
Dr Adequate
I deleted the email.
I didn't make it up.
Ashles
I repeat I do NOT have a hole in my eye. She said there was nothing wrong with my vision.
If you put the pen on a level surface and guard it from air-currents and don't touch it then it won't move - assuming it's not a plain cylindrical one. I don't know why it lasted only a moment - I had a headache for a few days afterwards though which also put me off.
I wasn't using fraud - I know what I was doing.
Dr Adequate
I deleted the email.
I didn't make it up.
I repeat I do NOT have a hole in my eye. She said there was nothing wrong with my vision.
If you put the pen on a level surface and guard it from air-currents and don't touch it then it won't move - assuming it's not a plain cylindrical one. I don't know why it lasted only a moment - I had a headache for a few days afterwards though which also put me off.
I wasn't using fraud - I know what I was doing.
Dr Adequate
I deleted the email.
I didn't make it up.
Errm, huh?
I have not mentioned anything about a hole in your eye. I never said you did have a hole in your eye. I don't know what you even mean by having a hole in your eye.
What I asked was what did the optician say? If you go to an optician and report that you are constantly seeing orbs, they should refer you to someone else. This would be considered a problem worthy of further checking.
Are you saying the optician said this was fine and just to go home and ignore it?
Dr Adequate
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Can you do it again?jambo372 said:
$1,000,000 could be yours.
Yes... the trouble is, you may have got it wrong. I remember you complaining on another thread that Randi said that you could "clearly see Nina K manipulating the thread" and that you couldn't see the thread. Now, saying that you can see her manipulating it, and saying that you can see it, are two different things. Ashles, I think you may have some relevant footage? I wish you'd done as I asked and put all the Nina K stuff on one thread. I can't follow the argument.
In any case, you can't go around calling someone a liar but then add that you yourself have destroyed the evidence for this allegation. It looks cheap.
Perhaps Randi himself will have a copy of the email he sent you?
Ashles
The optician said my vision was fine . I do NOT have a hole in my eye.
Dr Adequate
I told you I only did it once - I had been trying for ages and it was ages ago I did that.
If he did have a copy he wouldn't give it to me - it'd help me prove what I said.
The optician said my vision was fine . I do NOT have a hole in my eye.
Dr Adequate
I told you I only did it once - I had been trying for ages and it was ages ago I did that.
If he did have a copy he wouldn't give it to me - it'd help me prove what I said.
Do I have to break some kind of code here?
Why do you keep mentioning holes in your eyes?
I never intimated you had such a thing, whatever it may be.
Please answer these questions:
Did you tell the optician you were seeing orbs?
Did the optician say that was normal?
If not what did the optician say was the cause?
Did the optician recommend that you see a specialist or doctor?
Dr Adequate
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What a rich inner life you have. You can imagine what he said, and you can imagine what he would do. How amusing. Evidence you don't have, evidence which you claim to have had, but claim to have destroyed, and evidence which you yourself haven't bothered to look for, but which you've made up in your head, would, if only it existed, prove you right. So that settles that. And you want to be a scientist? Try "professional con artist". Their profession requires them to reason like that. A scientist, on the other hand, would be politely asked to leave.jambo372 said:
Dr Adequate
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Ashles --- can you remember what thread this was on?Dr Adequate said: