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Gun controll?

Darat said:
(ETA: And please let's not get side tracked with "the constitution says" it has no supernatural powers.)
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Why on earth would I claim the US Constitution applies to you guys? Trying to get other countries to change their gun laws is something you guys get all atwitter about, not us. ;)

In the UK our society has never involved the idea that having a gun is somehow a right, we are just not interested (as a whole) in creating this right.
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I have no problem with that. Your country, your rules.
 
bonavada said:
The scenes of the mass marches in the video were of protests against the fox hunt ban. Nothing to do with guns.
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If that's the case, then it's really quite funny! (I haven't looked at the video as I'm at work.)

There were a lot of furious protest marches orchestrated by a small but vocal minority who objected to having their pet pastime of setting dogs to rip apart foxes interfered with. They really did manage a very big splash, for such a small number of people (relatively speaking). I think being rich and well-organised and knowing how to play the system had a lot to do with it. There were a lot of posters as well, reading "Fight prejudice - fight the ban!" Oh yes, the ban on foxhunting was all to do with class envy, the great unwashed resenting the upper-class johnnies with their horses and their estates and so on, so it wasn't animal welfare, it was "prejudice".

Didn't do them a blind bit of good, and they're now getting used to chasing aniseed trails, which nobody minds them doing in the slightest. In fact the popularity of the sport has increased, possibly due to numbers being swelled by people who enjoy riding across country but do not enjoy seeing foxes ripped apart.

However, foxes are still regarded as vermin, and farmers still need to cull them. It is perfectly legal to kill a fox in a way which is recognised as being relatively humane. You can even still use dogs to flush a fox out of cover before killing it in a humane way - you're just not allowed to set it to run for miles across country before tearing it to pieces.

So what is this humane way to kill foxes, which is now mandatory, and which these protesters were protesting against?

You got it. Shooting.

The anti-hunting-ban protests (apparently featured in the offending video) were in fact protests against gun use!!!!!

Rolfe.
 
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Ian Osborne said:
So what are your thoughts on US troops confiscating privately-held weapons in Iraq? Do you support the right of Iraqis to keep a rod buried in their garages, just in case?
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They don't confiscate them. In fact, Iraqis are allowed to have full-auto AK-47's. The line is drawn at machine guns, RPG's, and artillery.
 
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Lothian said:
Unlucky, that it the wrong answer, never mind lets have a look at what you could have won.
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So what is the percentage of people in the UK who are "farmers, gamekeepers, hunters", and who want one for "sport"? I'd guess less than 10%. For the other 90% guns are banned, yes?
 
Architect said:
Oh help, help, Police State!
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:D

But really we are highly limited in what we can have, compared to what we used to be allowed, and you could argue that, yes, they've been taken away from us.

Meanwhile, there were over 160,000 handguns handed in during the amnesties after they were banned but within two years of the banning of the final legal category (.22) crimes committed with handguns had risen by 40%. So it could indeed be argued that the ban didn't do anything except remove them from the hands of law-abiding target-shooting citizens, while those with criminal tendencies cheerfully ignored it.

I'm not suggesting that crimes committed with guns would fall if the population was all concealed-carrying handguns. That hasn't been legal since, what, the 1920s? And I don't think there's anyone who wants that to happen. But shooting is fun and it's a shame to have a flat ban :(
 
WildCat said:
"farmers, gamekeepers, hunters" "sport"? I'd guess less than 10%. For the other 90% guns are banned, yes?
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"Sport" includes clay pigeon and target shooting. If you can claim that you want to do this, then you're in. You're only banned if you've got a criminal record or are otherwise deemed unstable.
 
WildCat said:
So what is the percentage of people in the UK who are "farmers, gamekeepers, hunters", and who want one for "sport"? I'd guess less than 10%. For the other 90% guns are banned, yes?
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It isn't banned unless you are shown that you should NOT have one. Most people just don't want them, and think it's insane to have guns in the house.

ETS: Damn, beaten to it.
 
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richardm said:
"Sport" includes clay pigeon and target shooting. If you can claim that you want to do this, then you're in. You're only banned if you've got a criminal record or are otherwise deemed unstable.
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So all you have to do is claim you intend to trap or skeet shoot? I was under the impression that you actually had to join a gun club before you were allowed.
 
Hi

"To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police: the police being the only members of the public that are paid to give full time attention to the duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interest of community welfare and existence."
— Sir Robert Peel (1788-1850)

Bob's not your uncle any more.

ANYHOW....

On the other hand, the NRA sucks. It's a movie whose message is, "join the NRA, or else," which translates to, "send us money, or else."

Niche marketing at its finest.

Back in the day, I was quite proud of my NRA membership, too, but as the anti-gun people got more radical, the NRA got more radical, to the point where they were praising the free and independent fight of someone who only fought for the freedom to pass bad checks and only fought for the independence to refuse a legal search warrant.

Charles Heston and I quit at about the same time. Chuck's gone back. I haven't, and won't until I see some significant changes in leadership.

Instead, I propose that you all send you membership fees to the, "Gagglegnash Rifle Association." All denominations and nationalities of currency are accepted.

I will do both the jobs of supporting both the causes of the pro- and anti-gun factions by
1) Purchasing as many firearms as I possibly can, and
2) Getting them, "off the street," and into a properly secured gun safe.
 
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WildCat said:
So what is the percentage of people in the UK who are "farmers, gamekeepers, hunters", and who want one for "sport"? I'd guess less than 10%. For the other 90% guns are banned, yes?
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But if I decided to take up clay pigeon shooting then I could get a shotgun licence no problem. So the actual number or percentage is a red herring.
 
WildCat said:
So what is the percentage of people in the UK who are "farmers, gamekeepers, hunters", and who want one for "sport"? I'd guess less than 10%. For the other 90% guns are banned, yes?
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Not banned. Most people would be granted a shotgun licence (unless they have a criminal record or similar - hunting is a valid reason and quite legal.
A permit is also fairly easy for a target pistol, but I think gear has to be kept at the gun club.
A permit for a concealed handgun would be difficult, but they are granted.
A permit for an AK47 or similar would be somewhat unlikely to be approved.
So nothing is banned as such, just generally restricted to 'sporting' guns.
So if you have the desire to blow a grouse to pieces you are at Liberty to do so. Capitalisation on purpose.
 
WildCat said:
So Architect was wrong?
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When?

Just to clear it up, I was stating that owning the guns which are legal in the UK is perfectly legal unless you are shown to be someone who should not, by law, be provided with a gun. Therefore as long as you want one for sport, hunting etc. then you will be allowed one provided you tick all the boxes on the application checks and then buy a legal firearm, such as a break action shotgun.
 
fagin said:
Not banned. Most people would be granted a shotgun licence (unless they have a criminal record or similar - hunting is a valid reason and quite legal.
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Yup.

A permit is also fairly easy for a target pistol, but I think gear has to be kept at the gun club.
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You sure about that? Was that not one of the Dunblane changes?

A permit for a concealed handgun would be difficult, but they are granted.
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"Almost impossible" might be a better way of saying it, but yes it is possible.


A permit for an AK47 or similar would be somewhat unlikely to be approved.
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"Practically Impossible"

So nothing is banned as such, just generally restricted to 'sporting' guns. So if you have the desire to blow a grouse to pieces you are at Liberty to do so. Capitalisation on purpose.
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Indeed. In fact, our Highland economy relies on it.
 
WildCat said:
So all you have to do is claim you intend to trap or skeet shoot? I was under the impression that you actually had to join a gun club before you were allowed.
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For a firearms certificate covering rifles, you do have to be able to show that you have somewhere to use them. This can either be at an accredited club of which you're a member - easy enough - or some suitable bit of land over which you've got rights to shoot. This doesn't apply to shotguns, although I believe that there are moves afoot in Scotland to change the rules to be similar to rifles.
 
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