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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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Cleon said:
Great. Well, since none of these boats are carrying weapons of any sort, there's no reason for Israel to prevent them from reaching Gaza.
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Of course there is, in the same way the British navy blockaded all German ships during WWI, not just those carrying weapons.
 
bikerdruid said:
wrong.
he was attempting to provide humanitarian aid to the people of gaza.
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Not really, because when he was offered to send the material to the people of Gaza he refused.

By the way, Gaza had just opened its second mega-shopping mall. Funny how even the Gazans, just by sorta-kinda allowing capitalism, are doing better than the Cubans, that wonderful success story of communism.
 
Can anyone please articulate what benefits this sideshow will bestow on the people of Gaza? As others have pointed out, the goods they are bringing is only a small proportion of what Israel imports to Gaza. This is an exercise in green/leftist group masturbation, nothing more.
 
lionking said:
Can anyone please articulate what benefits this sideshow will bestow on the people of Gaza? As others have pointed out, the goods they are bringing is only a small proportion of what Israel imports to Gaza. This is an exercise in green/leftist group masturbation, nothing more.
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as a leftist green i object to this generalisation.
 
lionking said:
Can anyone please articulate what benefits this sideshow will bestow on the people of Gaza? As others have pointed out, the goods they are bringing is only a small proportion of what Israel imports to Gaza. This is an exercise in green/leftist group masturbation, nothing more.
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I'd say the best explanation for their behaviour is that they're idiots.
 
The Fool said:
oh good grief mortimer.....

think about it.
Is the US blockading Iraq? Is the Iraqi government a semi autonomous authority?....is Gaza a member of the UN.. Is Hamas the government of a sovereign state? are you sure you are not trolling?


bizzaro world indeed.
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Look, you are the one that said that Iraq is not occupied, and your reasoning was "the election and the new government and all that stuff." If you are not going to define what you mean by "all that stuff", your definition of occupation fits Iraq and Gaza equally.

Personal attack noted.
 
bikerdruid said:
i view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people.
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Hamas says otherwise.

Hamas states that their mission is the extermination of the jewish peoples and the subjugation of adherents of other religions under an islamic theocracy.
 
DC said:
they planned to be non violent this time? wow something new.
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a_unique_person said:
They planned it to be non violent the first time. Not everyone agreed, apparently.
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So some people planned in the first flotilla for it to be violent, and some people planned it to be non-violent.

Which means that the people who planned the first flotilla to be non violent either knew that there were people who planned it to be violent, or they were just extremely naive.


Trying to break a Naval blockade to obtain news coverage is a very dangerous stunt, and while I agree with the activists that the blockade includes an import and export ban of more than is necessary to prevent arms to Hamas, the tactic that the activist have said they are following of directly confronting Israel because they "want to break the siege and the flotilla is not about expanding the drip of humanitarian aid to Gaza" (see below link for quote), could very easily end in violence.

HoverBoarder said:
Sure Israel did, but the Flotilla has said that they would never accept that type of radical peaceful and non-violent sollution.

That goes against the whole point of the Flotilla!!
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HoverBoarder said:
I do not think that it was fair that the people of Gaza were not told that they would be punished in the way that they have been for voting for Hamas
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Oh please, when you elect a genocidal internationally recognized terrorist group as your government there will be consequences. Especially one that is at war with a neighboring state. And this was known and talked about prior to Hamas being elected.

The people of Gaza cannot elect such a group and then cry about the consequences of their actions. And IMHO people in a democracy share far more of the blame for putting a froup like Hamas in power than the people of a repressive dictatorship have for their government. How many flotillas are heading to N. Korea, where there's actually starvation occurring? I'm guessing none. And good luck finding anyone accusing the rest of the world for "collective punishment" (a term that is so far removed from its original meaning wrt war as to be unrecognizable) of N. Korea or Iran or other rogue nations.

And yet Israel, alone among any nation ever in history, is supposed to allow the free flow of goods to a country whose government is at war with it.
 
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HoverBoarder said:
Trying to break a Naval blockade to obtain news coverage is a very dangerous stunt, and while I agree with the activists that the blockade includes an import and export ban of more than is necessary to prevent arms to Hamas, the tactic that the activist have said they are following of directly confronting Israel because they "want to break the siege and the flotilla is not about expanding the drip of humanitarian aid to Gaza" (see below link for quote), could very easily end in violence.
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It's not just about arms, but also war materiel. This includes things like concrete which can be used to build bunkers. So any concrete imported into Gaza must have a specific and legitimate civilian use before it can enter.
 
a_unique_person said:
It was a simple lose/lose loaded question, you mean. When did you stop beating your wife?
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It was not a loaded question on the same lines as "when did you stop beating your wife".

My question made no assumptions at all.

I'm not surprised you refuse to answer it. You have blinders on when it comes to Palestinians. If you knew fellow Australians who voted for a party of genocide-advocating racists just because they liked their economic policies you'd likely declare them racist thugs. But when the Palestinians do the same, and in great numbers, you make excuses for them.
 
And surprise surprise surprise! Apparently some of the activists share Hamas' goal of destroying Israel:
"We will wait no matter how long it takes," Alejandro Fierro, an activist on the Spanish ship Guernica, which is docked in Crete, told al-Jazeera. "We've learned patience from the Palestinian people who have been resisting Israeli occupation for 60 years, so we can wait. We are not going to move until our government makes some solution for the Greek government to let us sail."
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/05/activists-gaza-blockade-aid-flotilla

The only way to interpret that is that all of Israel proper is "Israeli occupation".
 
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