General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[theprestige]

Leumas, you keep posting extremely long videos (some over an hour in duration) and let me just make mention that I'm kinda busy (like probably most of us here), and if you could summarize these for us, it would allow proper discussions to progress. TIA.

I'm not sure the progress of proper discussion is the idea here. I think the idea is that the video is supposed to supersede any discussion. You don't need to have a proper discussion; there's already an hour's worth of proper discussion that resolves the whole thing. So you can stop thinking now, stop discussing now, just consume the video to receive enlightenment from the proper discussion that others have already completed for you.

Leumas doesn't need to have a proper discussion with you. He's already consumed the video of other people having the discussion. It has already instilled Correct Thought in him. All he's asking is that you do the same, so that you and he can think the same, without any more discussion being required.

Continued from

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306886

Posted By: jimbob

 

[webfusion]

I'm not sure the progress of proper discussion is the idea here. I think the idea is that the video is supposed to supersede any discussion. You don't need to have a proper discussion; there's already an hour's worth of proper discussion that resolves the whole thing. So you can stop thinking now, stop discussing now, just consume the video to receive enlightenment from the proper discussion that others have already completed for you.

Leumas doesn't need to have a proper discussion with you. He's already consumed the video of other people having the discussion. It has already instilled Correct Thought in him. All he's asking is that you do the same, so that you and he can think the same, without any more discussion being required.

No thanks, when a video is titled "Israel's Apartheid" (and narrated by Alice Walker) I quickly close that window and instead go look for a nice Pizza Review from Davey Pageviews.

 

[TragicMonkey]

No thanks, when a video is titled "Israel's Apartheid" (and narrated by Alice Walker) I quickly close that window and instead go look for a nice Pizza Review from Davey Pageviews.

I don't know if it's just an algorithm working to coincidence or if somebody somewhere is being cheeky, but I keep getting YouTube recommendations for clips from "Yes, Minister" discussing Israel and foreign relations. The sad part is that pretty much everything they said about it back then still applies today.

 

[Leumas]

If it was so simple, why does it take 1 hr and 34 minutes to explain?

It takes 10 years to become a doctor and 7 years to become a competent Architect... I think 94 minutes... shorter than a one lecture in one course in a university... is not much to ask so as to prevent

Or, worse. have a little knowledge of history.Nothing is more danerous then somebody who has a little knowledge of something but thinks he is an expert.

 

[Leumas]

Leumas, you keep posting extremely long videos (some over an hour in duration) and let me just make mention that I'm kinda busy (like probably most of us here), and if you could summarize these for us, it would allow proper discussions to progress. TIA.

I'm not sure the progress of proper discussion is the idea here. I think the idea is that the video is supposed to supersede any discussion. You don't need to have a proper discussion; there's already an hour's worth of proper discussion that resolves the whole thing. So you can stop thinking now, stop discussing now, just consume the video to receive enlightenment from the proper discussion that others have already completed for you....

No thanks, when a video is titled "Israel's Apartheid" (and narrated by Alice Walker) I quickly close that window and instead go look for a nice Pizza Review from Davey Pageviews.

Yup...

Or, worse. have a little knowledge of history.Nothing is more danerous then somebody who has a little knowledge of something but thinks he is an expert.

 

[Stout]

Some evidently do not want to... as shown in this video.

Yes, Israelis can be dicks as anyone who's run into Israeli tourists can attest to. The general censuses has it that they're this way because their neighbors are constantly trying to kill them. I'll allow it.

They can have a wicked sense of humor though. Lwts take a trip down memory lane. Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

Just in case that song gets stuck in your head, here's an antidote. Meni Mamtera - Topic

And since we're posting music videos, this one's interesting. Well, I guess that depends on your definition of interesting, Novel for sure. The Houthi’s have declared war on Israel by releasing a jaunty musical.

 

[Tristan Chi]

The Issue

As far as the general discussion, a differnt solution might have been preferable.

 

[Brainster]

Some evidently do not want to... as shown in this video.

Rape and murder is too good for anybody who would make videos like that.

 

[Leumas]

Yes, Israelis can be dicks as anyone who's run into Israeli tourists can attest to. The general censuses has it that they're this way because their neighbors are constantly trying to kill them. I'll allow it.

That is what Settler Colonialists ought to expect from the autochthonous populations they try to ethnically cleanse in order to create their apartheid settlements.

They can have a wicked sense of humor though. Lwts take a trip down memory lane. Flotilla Choir presents: We Con the World

Nah... not good.

Just in case that song gets stuck in your head, here's an antidote. Meni Mamtera - Topic

Yah... this one is much nicer.

And since we're posting music videos, this one's interesting. Well, I guess that depends on your definition of interesting, Novel for sure. The Houthi’s have declared war on Israel by releasing a jaunty musical.

Pathetic and risible...

 

[Leumas]

As far as the general discussion, a differnt solution might have been preferable.

My favorite WET DREAM is this...

they learn that the mysterious complex is operated by a paramilitary group who wants to build a new Temple in Jerusalem after destroying the Dome of the Rock, hoping to speed the birth of the Messiah. An evangelical Christian Zionist American government supports the group.

As Landsman and Berko investigate, the News reports the Dome being bombed. American agents apprehend the detectives and offer them permission to stay in Sitka, if they agree to keep quiet about the plot they have uncovered.

For the last few weeks I wake up every day HOPING and WISHING with all my wishing upon all the stars... that this will happen.

 

[Leumas]

Rape and murder is too good for anybody who would make videos like that.

No... but they are as repugnant as a rapist who makes a video mocking his rape victim.

 

[Nessie]

It takes 10 years to become a doctor and 7 years to become a competent Architect... I think 94 minutes... shorter than a one lecture in one course in a university... is not much to ask so as to prevent

Or you could explain.

 

[Leumas]

Or you could explain.

Or you could read a book....

But Ok then... here you go...

Europeans of a certain religion... were being persecuted and discriminated against for centuries by the majority other Europeans of another religion.... and this religious discrimination eventually resulted in atrocities of a heinous scale.

The Europeans who survived all that atrocity decided they needed to get out of Europe and go take some other people's land and make it theirs.​

Reminds you of something (or this one)?

The autochthonous natives of the land, the fleeing Europeans were taking, did not like that, so they tried to stop those Europeans.

But those fleeing Europeans were too well armed by other Europeans and trained in the use of those arms.

So they eventually did take the land from the simpler natives.

The Europeans fleeing from religious persecution put the natives in RESERVATIONS in which the Europeans decided they can keep those natives and control them more easily.​

Sounds familiar?

But unlike in the Americas and Australia and Africa and other such places... those particular natives were not easily controlled or subdued.... much like the poor tenacious people of Masada and the relentless Maccabees or even the early Christian Martyrs... those natives kept on fighting against the European Settler Colonialists who took their lands.

And those natives are still not easy to control and now the Settler Colonialists are trying a FINAL SOLUTION on them.

The End.​

Ah... and I forgot....

Much earlier European Settler Colonialists in America and Australia and Canada and other Europeans identify with the problem and keep helping with powerful weapons and BILION$$$ in order to facilitate the extirpation of those irksome pesky relentless natives.​

ETA: and I forgot yet one more thing...

Ironically the Europeans of the majority religion who hated so much the fleeing Europeans, think their god will not come back until rivers of blood are shed by those fleeing Europeans killing and getting killed by those natives.... and that is the impetus behind them financing and egging on the fleeing Europeans... to precipitate and hasten the come of this god to end the world.​

 

[webfusion]

BATTLEGROUND: Fact & Fantasy in Palestine Shmuel Katz 1973 ---
"Coexistence between ethnic groups in one political unit is not the happiest state in creation. Mankind has not, however, yet discovered the formula that will make self-government possible for every group of people. Destiny has so far seen to it that 10 percent of the world’s people live as minorities. For a group to live as a minority does not in itself involve special hardship. Life for a minority becomes hard, and even tragic, only when it is discriminated against, when it is ill-treated, and when it lives only as a minority, with nowhere a national territory of its own. Such an example, in varying degrees of severity, is the state of the Basques in Spain, of the Kurds in Iraq and Syria."

"The Arabs in their states have accommodated themselves enthusiastically to this universally sanctified phenomenon. Some seventy million Arabs live as majorities and rule over their minorities, sometimes discriminating against them moderately, sometimes exercising brutal repression, everywhere without embarrassment. It would be absurd, even grotesque, to suggest that there is something wrong, unjust, or immoral in the Arabs' millions living as a minority in Israel."

 

[Leumas]

BATTLEGROUND: Fact & Fantasy in Palestine Shmuel Katz 1973 ---
"Coexistence between ethnic groups in one political unit is not the happiest state in creation.

Only for racists and xenophobes and hateful self-righteous supremacists.

If those scum are not given power... everyone can live together regardless... as has been done many times before until self-righteous scum wrenched power.

Mankind has not, however, yet discovered the formula that will make self-government possible for every group of people.

Nor does it need to if it were not for the RACIST XENOPHOBIC scum who do not want to and cannot live with other groups.

Destiny has so far seen to it that 10 percent of the world’s people live as minorities.

And that would be no problem whatsoever if the majority are not racist xenophobic SCUM

For a group to live as a minority does not in itself involve special hardship. Life for a minority becomes hard, and even tragic, only when it is discriminated against, when it is ill-treated, and when it lives only as a minority, with nowhere a national territory of its own.

So the abused become the Settler Colonialist ABUSERS of the natives of those lands they are fleeing to from the their abusers.

BECAUSE the minority themselves were also RACISTS and XENOPHOBIC too and could not tolerate the majority from where they came.

Such an example, in varying degrees of severity, is the state of the Basques in Spain, of the Kurds in Iraq and Syria."

Yes... those are good examples... the xenophobia and racism of the minority (the former).... and the racism and heinousness of the majority (the latter two)

"The Arabs in their states have accommodated themselves enthusiastically to this universally sanctified phenomenon.

Because they were ALLOWED TO and even TRAINED to by the French and British

Some seventy million Arabs live as majorities and rule over their minorities, sometimes discriminating against them moderately, sometimes exercising brutal repression, everywhere without embarrassment.

Yes... because they are scum.

It would be absurd, even grotesque, to suggest that there is something wrong, unjust, or immoral in the Arabs' millions living as a minority in Israel."

Ah... so two immoralities done by two racist xenophobic scums balances out???

It is a hideous fact of the psychology of the wretched humanity that many of the abused grow up to be grotesque abusers themselves.

Does having been abused make it any less CRIMINAL when they abuse as adults?

Do the victim of the adult abusing abuser have to feel less abused because their abuser was a victim of abuse?




.

 

[webfusion]

Leumas, seems that there's a lot of scum in this world. Most of whom get a pass.

Israel will emerge from this war and a mess will remain to clean up. I hope the Palestinians are up to the task. https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/379516
Barry Shaw writes an op-ed about Gaza reconstruction being arranged by a regional board led by Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, the US and the UAE.

 

[Orphia Nay]

One death is tragedy, one million deaths is statistic.

Nailed it.

Since then, this thread has been basically just two extremists talking past each other.

Meanwhile, over 9,000 Gazans are said to be dead, and "The U.N. said about 1.5 million people in Gaza, or 70% of the population, have fled their homes. Food, water and the fuel needed for generators that power hospitals and other facilities is running out."

https://apnews.com/article/eb1dfa6afe40ba267024c7d819e17194

It's a ****-storm.

 

[Nessie]

Or you could read a book....

But Ok then... here you go...

Europeans of a certain religion... were being persecuted and discriminated against for centuries by the majority other Europeans of another religion.... and this religious discrimination eventually resulted in atrocities of a heinous scale.

The Europeans who survived all that atrocity decided they needed to get out of Europe and go take some other people's land and make it theirs.​

Reminds you of something (or this one)?

The autochthonous natives of the land, the fleeing Europeans were taking, did not like that, so they tried to stop those Europeans.

But those fleeing Europeans were too well armed by other Europeans and trained in the use of those arms.

So they eventually did take the land from the simpler natives.

The Europeans fleeing from religious persecution put the natives in RESERVATIONS in which the Europeans decided they can keep those natives and control them more easily.​

Sounds familiar?

But unlike in the Americas and Australia and Africa and other such places... those particular natives were not easily controlled or subdued.... much like the poor tenacious people of Masada and the relentless Maccabees or even the early Christian Martyrs... those natives kept on fighting against the European Settler Colonialists who took their lands.

And those natives are still not easy to control and now the Settler Colonialists are trying a FINAL SOLUTION on them.

The End.​

Ah... and I forgot....

Much earlier European Settler Colonialists in America and Australia and Canada and other Europeans identify with the problem and keep helping with powerful weapons and BILION$$$ in order to facilitate the extirpation of those irksome pesky relentless natives.​

ETA: and I forgot yet one more thing...

Ironically the Europeans of the majority religion who hated so much the fleeing Europeans, think their god will not come back until rivers of blood are shed by those fleeing Europeans killing and getting killed by those natives.... and that is the impetus behind them financing and egging on the fleeing Europeans... to precipitate and hasten the come of this god to end the world.​

How is your summary of the formation of Israel relevant to my original comment of;

"Both sides have people who want to kill the other, who are angry that there are people who want to kill them. Sadly, those are the people in charge..."

where you claim it is much simpler than that. It is a fact that those presently in charge in Israel and Gaza both think that violence is the solution.

 

[webfusion]

Nailed it.

Since then, this thread has been basically just two extremists talking past each other.

Meanwhile, over 9,000 Gazans are said to be dead, and "The U.N. said about 1.5 million people in Gaza, or 70% of the population, have fled their homes. Food, water and the fuel needed for generators that power hospitals and other facilities is running out."

https://apnews.com/article/eb1dfa6afe40ba267024c7d819e17194

It's a ****-storm.

Of course, I didn't see anyone in the streets of Washington DC yesterday (or London, or anywhere on Earth) demanding that HAMAS surrender, or that they return cadavers to Israel (in exchange for their own dead), or asking Gaza's leadership to make any effort whatsoever that would bring the IDF to withdraw and stop the war.

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-771471

Yeah, the only thing that has been demanded of HAMAS is -- Nothing.

Indeed, the HAMAS has been bolstered and praised and acknowleged as acting properly, because they are embarked upon a path to create the conditions for the entire region to erupt in war, which might just be the war that causes the Jews so much pain that the State of Israel cannot any longer sustain itself and we must abandon our homes (even more than has already been happening during this war).

I am not being ambiguous here. HAMAS will surrender. Either they do it now, or they do it later, but they're going to.

 

[Thermal]

Of course, I didn't see anyone in the streets of Washington DC yesterday (or London, or anywhere on Earth) demanding that HAMAS surrender, or that they return cadavers to Israel (in exchange for their own dead), or asking Gaza's leadership to make any effort whatsoever that would bring the IDF to withdraw and stop the war.

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-771471

Yeah, the only thing that has been demanded of HAMAS is -- Nothing.

Indeed, the HAMAS has been bolstered and praised and acknowleged as acting properly, because they are embarked upon a path to create the conditions for the entire region to erupt in war, which might just be the war that causes the Jews so much pain that the State of Israel cannot any longer sustain itself and we must abandon our homes (even more than has already been happening during this war).

I am not being ambiguous here.HAMAS will surrender.Either they do it now, or they do it later, but they're going to.

Heavy doubts, here. I'd give odds that they might disburse and disappear temporarily, but hate like that doesn't surrender. Al-Quaeda didn't surrender either. It may be decimated but the ideology just morphs into a new boss, same as the old boss.