Franko said:
Can Time not exist? I mean … let’s say that prior to the “Big Bang”, there was no Time. How long did this Timeless period last for?
Maybe there never was a “Timeless period”? Maybe Time has always existed? How is it possible for Time to not exist? Even if nothing at all existed, didn’t nothing at all have to last for a certain interval?
I had never heard of this concept of "timelessness" until coming on the boards here, and it seems counterintuitive, but on reflection, I can conceive of its possibility. After all, how do you measure time? You measure things
happening. You may measure the movement of clockwork, or the vibrations of an atom or even the erosion of mountains. But if nothing exists, then
nothing happens. If time is the sequence of events, then what meaning does it have if there are no events?
Bear in mind, I am not claiming this to be true, but it is an interesting possibility.
Okay, so according to LD you start off with one single entity – a consciousness. We call him the Progenitor, and since he was the only consciousness in existence at the Time, he is the Progenitor Solipsist, the PS.
Yes, and you do not have a creator for the Progenitor. He "magically" popped into existence, much as some people claim the Big Bang did. LD does what all theories of origins must do, which is acknowledge that it does not know what happened before "the beginning". While there is nothing wrong with making this admission, too many religions postulate things that go beyond any knowledge or evidence. IMO we should stop making claims when we reach the point before which we have no knowledge. Based on most available info, this point is the Big Bang.
So the PS is around for a long time. And he is evolving, he is becoming more and more self aware. He understands himself and what he is (Time) better and better. He is perceiving Time better and better over the course of Time. Eventually he comes to the realization that he is alone.
I don't understand how the PS can evolve. How can it learn? There is
nothing going on. One learns through experience, and if the PS experiences nothing, then it cannot learn. If things are happening (like time passing) that the PS does not control, then the PS is not the creator of everything. Recall also, that earlier you said Gravitons were the fundamental particles of time and gravity. Unless gravitions existed at this point, then there could be no time.
And over Time this gets to be a problem for him. Solitude becomes a trap from which he must escape, so he begins to devise a plan. All that he really has to work with is Time. Time is all that exists. Essentially what he has to do is split Time in two. But there are a lot of problems with this. If he’s not careful he’ll just create another identity completely identical to himself. Now he could create an entity inferior to himself, but that’s a problem. He could reverse the situation and create an entity superior to himself, but that just shifts the problem to the new entity. What he really needs to do is create an entity that is different than himself, but one that is still his fundamental equal.
Even though this scenario is interesting, it is a
lot of speculation. Also, it's impossible under the tenets of LD. An entity cannot create something more complex than itself. LD says complexity and consciousness are always diminished in the creation as compared to the creator.
And that’s exactly what he ends up doing. Eventually, he figures out a way to split himself into two different but fundamentally equal parts. One part (the “new” entity) contains more information (more Mass), but a lower processing Time (Velocity), and the other part contains less information (less Mass), but more processing power (Velocity). So the PS becomes the PR (Progenitor Remnant), and the “new” entity becomes the first “female” – Right Spin. (a side effect of the process is that all entities with Mass also now acquire a “Spin”, and all entities with Velocity now also acquire a “Charge”). Furthermore, as a result of splitting up his original Mass, he is unable to further replicate without the direct involvement of the female entity.
This implies that the PS had mass and velocity to begin with. From where did they arise? This also implies that the Progenitor Remnant is male, because if one entity acquired a "right spin" then that action must leave the PR with the opposite and equal reaction, thus acquiring "left spin". I am curious as to why the PR has (so far) played such a limited part in your story to date. Interesting though. Many pagans also posit "male" and "female" forces in the universe.
That’s the dawn of Our Time, because it was after these events that all of us were created. It’s after this point in Time that real evolution begins. When individual existence first began the bare Omniverse was the only Universe that existed. We are Gravitons and we are produced as the result of a collision between a right Spin and a left Spin Graviton. In reality we don’t even exist in this “universe”. This Universe is analogous to being deeply absorbed in a Television program.
From the previous paragraph, it appeared that the PS split up and generated the left and right spin LG and PR
(edited to add - What is the "female" remnant? I'm confused as to this original left-spin particle. I had assumed that it was the LG, but later, you seem to say otherwise). Are you saying that these two entities then "collide", creating every other graviton in existence? If so, it would seem that the original "colliding" gravitons must be greatly diminished, just as the PS was diminished when it split into the PR and the LG
(Or PR and Left-Spin, if this is not the LG). It also appears either that these two "original" gravitons should still be around somewhere (I doubt they went to the abyss), or they were destroyed in the collision. If the former, why aren't they the "top gravitons"?
So you now you have these gravitons – just particles really. And they are winging around, transferring information back and fourth between each other when they are in range of one another. Occasionally two collide just right, and they produce a new Graviton. But their experiences are all different now. No two can occupy the exact same region of Spacetime. They are becoming more and more individuals, they are becoming more and more unique because of the region of the Omniverse they tend to occupy, or the Gravitons they tend to communicate with regularly. Eventually, one of them (a right Spin) perceives something new – She perceives a new way to communicate (transfer) information (energy). What She really perceives is an improved way to perceive Time. She perceives a way to project a common frame of reference from Her mind, directly to yours. In effect, She’s lending you a part of Her perception, and She is hoping that by experiencing it directly you will realize how to do what She does all on your own.
What can I say about this passage. It is marvelously inventive, as fiction. As science, though, it has a number of glaring problems, such as how does a particle "perceive" anything? Gravitons have sensory apparatus?
When two gravitons collide to create a new one, where does the mass come from? Are the colliding gravitons destroyed? Does their mass combine? This also implies that gravitons are being created even today, if they manage to collide just right. Some of them have not "always been here".
I am confused though. I was under the impression that one of the gravitons that split from the PS was the LG. Now it appears that "she" is just one of the "children" of the original collision, albeit a more perceptive one.
After all, intrinsically you are no different then Her, Your just less evolved.
It sounds as if you are using "evolved" to mean "perceptive".
But I don’t think many people realize what’s going on. Some people realize it though.
Definitely not the A-Theists. They are about as far from the Truth as one can get.
It is quite hard to "realize" something like this, what with the dearth of evidence. It doesn't sound like anything that two people would ever derive individually. If it is truly "logical", then there should be many who have come to the same conclusions. In my wide experience, I have never met anyone else with beliefs remotely similar to this.
It is true that few if any atheists would "realize" this. It makes too many unsupportable claims, and atheists are famous for not believing unsupported claims.
However, I would like to thank you, Franko, for this very interesting and polite post. As I say, your story is quite creative (pun intended) and well thought out. It might make a great "D&D" scenario. It may, in fact, be exactly that.
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