Tricky said:
You are so close to enlightenment, grasshopper. Can you make the final leap? Ask yourself this question: If not matter, then what creates consciousness? Is it something unconscious, like Time?
LD is a philosophy regarding quantum gravity. With Gravity being the source of consciousness.
Im not familiar with the logic as yet, so any questions regarding Consciousness and Gravity will be limited.
Though Consciousness and Time is another issue.
Whats Time without Consciousness and Consciousness without Time?
You have stated that all my evidence is mere "correlation" and therefore not evidence. I would like to know what evidence you have that is not correlation. Is that twisting your words?
I said that correlations are not evidence
for matter creating consciousness
My correlations do indeed imply that matter makes consciousness, unless you can come up with another equally logical interpretation of the correlations. Okay, then, come up with some really bizarre interpretation. Okay then, come up with any interpretation of these correlations that does not imply matter creates consciousness. That will be hard to do, even for one such as you who has alreadly decided the conclusions in advance.
Correlations show that you obey TLOP. Which you believe is a non-conscious force.
Yes, and all those correlations show that matter makes consciousness. I say, manipulate matter and conciousness is changed.
Again you have shown correlations...not the process of matter creating consciousness
Now show how you show how to manipulate consciousness and thereby change matter. I've shown you how my experiments would work. You show me how yours do.
How though?
Im not the one generating this universe? I am a part of it. I obey TLOP.
I cant think of a F-22 and a F-22 will magically appear in front of me.
This universe is "matter creating consciousness" in action...via TLOP, only you have assigned TLOP to be non-conconscious.
So do I, lad, in the sense that I cannot do anything that TLOP do not allow. But TLOP allow lots of things, including randomness and free will. I like to think of TLOP as a fair and just lawgiver, rather than a dictator.
How is TLOP the dictator? Ultimately, it's YOUR MPB that's being run.
Randomness and free-will.....well consciousness seems to be algorithmic in process...I dont see how randomness and free-will can be so. Even if things were random, I dont see how you can sufficiently explain how that gives you your free-will.
Wow! what a meaningful aphorism! But then, without science, what is logic. OOOOOH. We are such deep thinkers!
Whats science without logic?
Thats meanlingess, because science is going to stem from logic anyway.
Okay, then. You mean "obey" in the sense as to follow commands. But TLOP do not give commands. They do not tell which atoms of uranium must fission. They do not tell Wraith which number he must choose between one an one hundred. TLOP constrain, they do not command (IMO). Thus, the different meanings of "obey" are critical to this discussion.
Thats the thing....you see correlations as "evidence" for matter creating consciousness, yet you dont obey those very correlations?
wraith: The moon obeys TLOP ie the moon is constrained by TLOP but it doesnt take orders from TLOP...ahh huh...So what does it do when it's not taking orders?
Tricky: It has some friends over for wine and cheese. Even the moon must have a day off.
But seriously, Wrath, the moon is not absolutely constrained in it's orbit, nor is the Earth or any body in the galaxy. A large enough asteroid could knock the moon out of orbit, or even destroy it. Is that TLOP? Yes, but it still shows that TLOP allow random and unpredictable occurrances to happen.
How is the asteroid hitting the earth a random event?
Will you please quit telling me what I am saying. I know what I am saying and you apparently don't. In fact, I am saying the same thing you are. The conclusion is observably true, yet the logic is false. According to the "logic equals truth" school, false logic should lead to a false conclusion. I have shown you an example where that is incorrect. I have also shown you cases where correct logic leads to a false conclusion. Thus, logic is not the final arbiter of truth, and so Logical Deism is a house of cards.
haha
That syllogism isnt logical. So youre right in saying that the logic is false. Due to this, the conclusion is not true by necessity.
However you said "false logic should lead to a false conclusion."
What are you trying to say here? The syllogism is false becase the conclusion doesnt flow from the premises. You seem to say that the premises are not logical. How do the premises indicate, as you say, "false logic"?
I realize that is what you are saying, and I don't claim that you are wrong. All I am saying is you don't know. Neither do I. I can envision a timeless scenario, and I can envision a scenario where time always existed. But if you claim time is conscious then you must admit that at least one thing (time) has a consciousness that was not created by somethingl else. Therefore both you and I claim that consciousness can exist that was not created by a conscious precursor. You say time. I say life on Earth. I can show that some life on Earth is conscious (by any definition you choose). Can you show that time is conscious?
How can you image a "no-time" scenario when you need Time to think up that scenario in the first place?
(I base this on what you have posted as being your picture.)
