Executive Order vs Decree

[Wolfman]

Have you seen this wonderful tool available for the situation DC put you in? Instead of the 5 paragraphs you typed you can just tell DC to "click here".

Why say with two words what I can say with 200?

 

[DC]

Ummmm...I think I've figured it out.

You're a high school student who's been assigned a research project, and you don't want to be bothered doing the research for yourself. So you come here and get us to do it instead.

For the record...I went to Google, typed in "Chavez, decree" in the search bar...and this was the very first result (and there are tons of others). It states quite clearly that Chavez is able to make laws and rule by decree (for example, creating new laws that allow him to seize privately owned foreign companies, and convert them to state-owned enterprises)...very different than what Obama is doing.

I really have to question your sincerity and intent in this discussion. When the answer to a question that you seem to think is so important is so very easy to find, and you don't bother...it doesn't seem like you really care about the answer, only about mindless argument.

If you want to discuss this any more, do your own damn research, and come to us with actual facts, rather than this mindless babbling.

But what laws did he pass?

everything including Nationalising , was inside the boundrys of the constitution. and by the National Axssembly.
In Switzerland for example we have dispossession. The state is able to take away private owned land and property. Because of a National railroad project for example. When it is needed for the collective good.

So where the newspapers that said "rule by decree" correct?
the powers he got where limited , not only in time.

and was used for reorganising the government.

I wonder which one is the law he released that would make that difference.
Which law did he implement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

why dont you deliver the facts to backup your claim of "rule by decree"
did anyone of you bother to look more closely into it, or do you just parrot what newpapers print?

 

[Wolfman]

Your original question was, "What is the difference between an Executive Order from the US president, and a Decree from the Venezuelan President?"

Its been explained over and over and over again.

An executive order simply sets policies for government employees within the President's administration. He does not make laws.

Chavez passes laws. He himself says that he is passing laws. He's not simply setting policy for government employees; he is making laws that directly apply to the general populace.

Nowhere have I stated an opinion as to whether Obama or Chavez are making decisions that I think are good or bad. Simply explaining the difference, as requested in your OP.

If you want to know more, such as what laws Chavez passed specifically...why don't you look it up for yourself? You seem to be the only person here who's concerned about this issue...why is it that we have to do the research to answer questions for you that are readily available all over the internet?

This is my last response in this thread; you obviously have no interest in really understanding. Sounds more like a half-baked attempt to equate Obama and Chavez's powers and decisions as somehow being equal.

 

[DC]

Your original question was, "What is the difference between an Executive Order from the US president, and a Decree from the Venezuelan President?"

Its been explained over and over and over again.

An executive order simply sets policies for government employees within the President's administration. He does not make laws.

Chavez passes laws. He himself says that he is passing laws. He's not simply setting policy for government employees; he is making laws that directly apply to the general populace.

Nowhere have I stated an opinion as to whether Obama or Chavez are making decisions that I think are good or bad. Simply explaining the difference, as requested in your OP.

If you want to know more, such as what laws Chavez passed specifically...why don't you look it up for yourself? You seem to be the only person here who's concerned about this issue...why is it that we have to do the research to answer questions for you that are readily available all over the internet?

This is my last response in this thread; you obviously have no interest in really understanding. Sounds more like a half-baked attempt to equate Obama and Chavez's powers and decisions as somehow being equal.

i just asked you to backup your claims. thats all.
this was done about the claims of the Execturive Order, but not about the claims about Chavez.

you claim for example.

he is making laws that directly apply to the general populace.

i ask, what law would that be.

 

[funk de fino]

Your OP has been comprehensively answered. They are dfferent.

Move along, nothing to see here.

 

[DC]

Your OP has been comprehensively answered. They are dfferent.

Move along, nothing to see here.

yes, i just wanted some backup about the claims beeing made about "rule by decree"

if your not interested, dont post in this thread, especially if you think there is nothing to see here.

 

[funk de fino]

http://www.babalublog.com/archives/008488.html

Ok here you go then.

The drafting and passage of the law behind closed doors, without exposing it to the public debate it would have had if Chávez had submitted it to the Assembly, also contributed to the public uproar and suspicion.

One part of the new law, which explicitly requires judges and prosecutors to cooperate with the intelligence services, has generated substantial concern among legal experts and rights groups, which were already alarmed by the deterioration of judicial independence under Chávez.

On Sunday, Chávez referred to critics of the intelligence law as de facto supporters of the Bush administration and of the Patriot Act, the American antiterrorism law that enhances the ability of security agencies to monitor personal telephone and e-mail communications.

Chávez's new intelligence law has similar flourishes. For instance, it authorizes his new intelligence agencies to use "any special or technically designed method" to intercept and obtain information.

Any dissent in the country and you are a Bushie lover. Sounds like a twoofer to me.

Do we really need to carry on.

The new law requires people in the country to comply with requests to assist the agencies, secret police or community activist groups loyal to Chávez. Refusal can result in prison terms of two to four years for most people and four to six years for government employees.

The prompt uproar led Chavez to rescind the decree this past Sunday, mere days after announcing it. "Where we made mistakes we must accept that and not defend the indefensible," Chávez said at a campaign rally in Zulia State for gubernatorial and mayoral candidates from his Socialist party

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2008/08/2008854188370390.html

The new laws includes measures which would set up neighbourhood-based militias, move the country towards a socialist economy and increase state control over agriculture

Jose Manuel Gonzalez, a business chamber leader of Fedecamaras, said: "We ask the president: Why does he fear democracy?"

He said that the package of laws included socialist concepts that voters rejected last year as part of a proposed overhaul of Venezuela's constitution

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3691

On the final day of the 18-month period during which the Venezuelan National Assembly granted President Hugo Chávez the power to pass laws by decree, Chávez signed 26 new laws regulating the armed forces, public administration, social security system, banks, agricultural production, and the tourism industry.

So he is passing laws under decree then.

 

[DC]

http://www.babalublog.com/archives/008488.html

Ok here you go then.






Any dissent in the country and you are a Bushie lover. Sounds like a twoofer to me.

Do we really need to carry on.

a Blogger that does not provide sources, nor does he say what laws exactly he has troublew with.

so in his blog it is not clearly seen what laws directly apply to the general populace. So we cannot check if his claims are true.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2008/08/2008854188370390.html

Also here cource = Agencys.

and no references to what exact law they refer to.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3691



So he is passing laws under decree then.

yes and like you listed, they was aimed at reorganising the government.
and i asked "what law directly apply to the general populace."

The new law requires people in the country to comply with requests to assist the agencies, secret police or community activist groups loyal to Chávez

what law are they talking about? that sounds very worrysome, i would like to read the full text of that law. do you know it?

one of your sources is providing more details, but shal i just belive them?

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3825

 

[funk de fino]

Look, he has passed these laws by decrees. You asked for evidence of this I gave you it. You can read anything else you want from any site you want. You cannot however deny he is passing laws by decree.

Just one more from your post.

so in his blog it is not clearly seen what laws directly apply to the general populace

The new law requires people in the country to comply with requests to assist the agencies, secret police or community activist groups loyal to Chávez. Refusal can result in prison terms of two to four years for most people and four to six years for government employees.

I think you also maybe missed this.

Hugo Chavez, Venezuela's president, has pushed through 26 new laws, covering changes in areas ranging from the military to small businesses

Why dont you go and find these laws, some of which did not go before the NA, and read all about them ourself. I already know that he passed these under decree and they directlt affect the populace.

 

[DC]

Look, he has passed these laws by decrees. You asked for evidence of this I gave you it. You can read anything else you want from any site you want. You cannot however deny he is passing laws by decree.

Just one more from your post.






I think you also maybe missed this.


Why dont you go and find these laws, some of which did not go before the NA, and read all about them ourself. I already know that he passed these under decree and they directlt affect the populace.

you dont gave evidence, you gave links to a blog that claimed it, and i already said , no source is provided there, nor did he provide the law that is causeig what he claims.

you say you KNOW all those things. so why dont you just tell me, what law exactly is directly applying the general populace.

a unsourced claim from a block isnt really evidence.
you just dont know what law you talk about, and you parrot stuff you found on a blog.

 

[funk de fino]

Where we made mistakes we must accept that and not defend the indefensible," Chávez said at a campaign rally in Zulia State for gubernatorial and mayoral candidates from his Socialist party

I guess if he did not pass the law then he would not have had to repeal the law?

Are you denying he is passing laws by decree?

ETA - You are lying again. I gave you more than links to blogs.

 

[DC]

I guess if he did not pass the law then he would not have had to repeal the law?

Are you denying he is passing laws by decree?

ETA - You are lying again. I gave you more than links to blogs.

i agree he is enabling laws. but who do they apply to?

the only law that did "directly apply to the general populace" was repealed?

if he would not have reacted to the critics, the National assembly would have, or the supreme court would have. and if those would not have.
the people still had the power in its hand.

Article 74: Statutes whose abrogation are requested on the initiative of a number of voters constituting at least 10% of the voters registered in the civil and electoral registry, or by the President* of the Republic taken at a meeting of the Cabinet, shall be submitted to a referendum for its abrogation in whole or in part. Decrees with the force of law issued by the President of the Republic, making use of the authority prescribed under article 236, section 8 of this Constitution, may also be submitted to an abrogatory referendum, when it is requested by a number of voters constituting at least 5% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry. In order for the abrogatory referendum to be valid, a number of voters constituting at least 40% of the total number of voters registered in the civil and electoral registry shall be essential. It shall not be possible to submit budget laws to an abrogatory referendum, neither those establishing or modifying taxes, relating to public credit, to amnesty, the protection, guaranteeing and developing human rights, nor those which ratify international treaties. There shall not be more than one abrogatory referendum on the same matter during the same constitutional term.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Venezuela#Section_Two:_Popular_Referendum

 

[funk de fino]

i agree he is enabling laws. but who do they apply to?

the only law that did "directly apply to the general populace" was repealed?

So he did then? And you lied about my sources?

if he would not have reacted to the critics, the National assembly would have, or the supreme court would have. and if those would not have.
the people still had the power in its hand.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Venezuela#Section_Two:_Popular_Referendum

Replace those "would" with "could"

And just incase you missed this again

Hugo Chavez, Venezuela's president, has pushed through 26 new laws, covering changes in areas ranging from the military to small businesses

Who do you think owns them?

From your source

Article 230: The presidential term is six years. The President* of the Republic may be re-elected, immediately and once only, to an additional term.

Is he allowed to bring a referendum on the same thing twice in one constitutional term?

http://buscador.eluniversal.com/2004/07/22/en_pol_art_22A477445.shtml

The Venezuelan Attorney General's Office partially admitted that the government of President Hugo Chávez did not meet all of the requirements the National Assembly dictated in connection with an Enabling Law that gave Chávez full powers to enact economy-related laws.

List of law decrees:

Decree No. 5,999 - Organic Law of Tourism

Decree No. 6,069 - Law of National Rail Transport

Decree No. 6,071 - Organic Law of agro-food security and sovereignty

Decree No. 6,072 - Law of Housing and Habitat Lending regime

Decree No. 6,092 - Law for the Defence of People's Access to Goods and Services

Decree No. 6,126 - Organic Law of Aquatic Spaces

Decree No. 6,128 - Law of Creation of Social Fund for the Capacitation and Readiness of Excessive Resources of Entities of National Public Administration

Decree No. 6,129 - Law of Integral Agricultural Health

Decree No. 6,130 - Law for the Fostering and Development of the Popular Economy

Decree No. 6,214 - Law of the Bank of Economic and Social Development of Venezuela (Bandes)

Decree No. 6,215 - Law for the Promotion and Development of Small and Medium Industry and Units of Social Production

Decree No. 6,216 - Law of Elimination and Liquidation of the Industrial Credit Fund (FONCREI)

Decree No. 6,217 - Organic Law of Public Administration

Decree No. 6,218 - Law of Restructuring of the National Institute of Housing.

Decree No. 6,219 - Law of Credit for the Agricultural Sector

Decree No. 6,220 - Law of Channelling and Maintenance of Navigation Routes

Decree No. 6,223 - Law of Reform of the Organic Law Financial Administration of the Public Sector

Decree No. 6,239 - Organic Law of the National Bolivarian Armed Forces

Decree No. 6,240 - Law of Benefits and Facilities of Pay for Agricultural Debts and Strategic Lines for Food Security and Sovereignty

Decree No. 6,241 - Law of Agricultural Bank of Venezuela

Decree No. 6,243 - Law of Partial Reform of the Organic Law of the System of Social Security

Decree No. 6,265 - Law of Simplification of Administrative Steps

Decree No. 6,266 - Law of Partial Reform of the Law of Social Security

Decree No. 6,267 - Law of the National Institute of Housing (INAVI)

Decree No. 6,286 - Law of Partial Reform of the Organic Law of the General Attorney of the Republic

Decree No. 6,287 - Law of Partial Reform of the General Law of Banks and Other Financial Institutions

 

[DC]

So he did then? And you lied about my sources?



Replace those "would" with "could"

And just incase you missed this again



Who do you think owns them?

what law is it that affects the small bussines? and what is the exact text?

From your source



Is he allowed to bring a referendum on the same thing twice in one constitutional term?

http://buscador.eluniversal.com/2004/07/22/en_pol_art_22A477445.shtml

no.

 

[INRM]

I don't think there really is any difference

 

[funk de fino]

what law is it that affects the small bussines? and what is the exact text?

I have given you the list in the post above. Go and look at them tyourself. Then come ack and exlain why none of them affect the populace of Venezuela.

no.

Then why is he having another referendum on increasing term limits for the President?

Article 230: The presidential term is six years. The President* of the Republic may be re-elected, immediately and once only, to an additional term.

If your gonna quote the constitution at me then explain that.

And as you seem to now like wiki here is a quote from there.

Rule by decree is a style of governance allowing quick, unchallenged creation of law by a single person or group, and is used primarily by dictators and absolute monarchs

 

[DC]

I have given you the list in the post above. Go and look at them tyourself. Then come ack and exlain why none of them affect the populace of Venezuela.



Then why is he having another referendum on increasing term limits for the President?



If your gonna quote the constitution at me then explain that.

And as you seem to now like wiki here is a quote from there.

you make claims, so back them up. what law is it, and what is its text?

and about wiki, wiki says this about Decree

A decree is an order made by a head of state or government and having the force of law. The particular term used for this concept may vary from country to country — the executive orders made by the president of the United States, for example, are decrees.
In non-legal English usage, however, the term rule by decree refers to any authoritarian decision and in this sense is often derogatory.

the new referendum is not the same as the last one.
the last one was a huge package with all kind of things.
this referendum now is only about removing term limits of all elected positions.

 

[funk de fino]

you make claims, so back them up. what law is it, and what is its text?

I have already showed you the laws and told you some of what they affect. Look at the titles ofthem, it may give you a clue.

and about wiki, wiki says this about Decree

So what? That is very strange because it also says this.

U.S. presidential executive orders share some similarities with rule by decree.

No-one has said they are not similar, but they are notthe ame. this has been shown to you by others.

the new referendum is not the same as the last one.
the last one was a huge package with all kind of things.
this referendum now is only about removing term limits of all elected positions.

So he has asked the people to vote on the same thing twice in the same constitutional timeframe?

Term limits will be voted on twice, no?

Here for you again

The new law requires people in the country to comply with requests to assist the agencies, secret police or community activist groups loyal to Chávez. Refusal can result in prison terms of two to four years for most people and four to six years for government employees.

The prompt uproar led Chavez to rescind the decree this past Sunday, mere days after announcing it. "Where we made mistakes we must accept that and not defend the indefensible," Chávez said at a campaign rally in Zulia State for gubernatorial and mayoral candidates from his Socialist party

So, he introduced it without it being put before the NA. Then he rescinded it. Do you have a problem with the above?

 

[DC]

I have already showed you the laws and told you some of what they affect. Look at the titles ofthem, it may give you a clue.



So what? That is very strange because it also says this.



No-one has said they are not similar, but they are notthe ame. this has been shown to you by others.



So he has asked the people to vote on the same thing twice in the same constitutional timeframe?

Term limits will be voted on twice, no?

Here for you again






So, he introduced it without it being put before the NA. Then he rescinded it. Do you have a problem with the above?

you showed a list of those laws you found in one of my links.
but you have no clue what law is aimed at the mall bussines. you have no clue what its text is.

you keep quoting someones claims, and you was till now not able to backup that claim.

and now you dropped the small bussines claim again, and jump back to the law that is not a law now......

you are like a loose change kid, take some claims from the news or blogs without checking the source or make sure the claim is correct.

figures...

is maybe this the law that apply to small busines owners?

Decree No. 6,287 - Law of Partial Reform of the General Law of Banks and Other Financial Institutions

 

[funk de fino]

you showed a list of those laws you found in one of my links.

No, from one of my links.

but you have no clue what law is aimed at the mall bussines. you have no clue what its text is.

have a look at the names it may give you a clue.

you keep quoting someones claims, and you was till now not able to backup that claim.

Like your claims about Bush instigating the coup orthe CIA being involved. You have treid to say he has notpassed laws under a decree. You are wrong. He did and they affect the populace of Venezuela.

and now you dropped the small bussines claim again, and jump back to the law that is not a law now......

I have not dropped it so yet again you have told lies. I have asked you to take a look at the list I gae you and see if you can guess. It's childs play surely?

you are like a loose change kid, take some claims from the news or blogs without checking the source or make sure the claim is correct.

says the man who used wiki and UK based media. You, DC, are a hypocrite

figures...

is maybe this the law that apply to small busines owners?

Do you think it was? I don't.

Was the land reform law done under decree?

You also missed this.

So he has asked the people to vote on the same thing twice in the same constitutional timeframe?

Term limits will be voted on twice, no?

You conveniently seem to be missing more and more of my posts.