• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged Euthanasia

Puppycow said:
Would it make a significant difference if she were 18 rather than 17?
Click to expand...

It wouldn't make a difference to me if she was 98.

The only circumstance that makes me even open to discuss euthanasia is terminal disease with physical pain sufficient to make what short amount of life left unbearable.

I am open to discussing whether her rapists should be charged with felony murder now.
 
DragonLady said:
It wouldn't make a difference to me if she was 98.

The only circumstance that makes me even open to discuss euthanasia is terminal disease with physical pain sufficient to make what short amount of life left unbearable.

I am open to discussing whether her rapists should be charged with felony murder now.
Click to expand...

Why would you oppose it if, for example, someone was just really bored?
 
"For years she never revealed the horrific abuse because it left her feeling ashamed, the 17-year-old said."

“Out of fear and shame, I relive the fear, that pain every day. Always scared, always on my guard. And to this day my body still feels dirty.

“My house has been broken into, my body, that can never be undone. “
Click to expand...

Here's the problem. Even in modern times, in a generally progressive atmosphere, there's still a culture of shame imposed on victims of sexual assault. What the hell for? Sexual assault victims don't ask for it, they're not leading their rapists on, but there's still this culture that makes victims afraid to confront the perpetrators for fear of being, what, blamed for her own rape? I don't care if you think sexual assault is overreported, underreported, true or false. A culture that makes it so a victim is afraid to get help because of fear or shame, that's just plain f'd up.

Had she received some kind of support in the immediate aftermath, even just assurances that it's not her fault, she's not to blame, there's no shame in being a victim, she might have felt confident enough to seek out the right treatment or therapy from the start. Not let shame of what happened weigh down on her for so long it came to this.

This entire discussion is predicated on a false dilemma-- euthanasia's not the issue here, it's that being the victim of sexual assault carries such an aura of disgrace as to make suicide seem a preferable alternative to speaking up.
 
Myriad said:
That's tragic. The relevant authorities should have _________ instead.

I must admit, though, I'm having a bit of difficulty figuring out how to fill in that blank.
Click to expand...

devoured odiferous brownish matter.
 
Yalius said:
Here's the problem. Even in modern times, in a generally progressive atmosphere, there's still a culture of shame imposed on victims of sexual assault. What the hell for? Sexual assault victims don't ask for it, they're not leading their rapists on, but there's still this culture that makes victims afraid to confront the perpetrators for fear of being, what, blamed for her own rape? I don't care if you think sexual assault is overreported, underreported, true or false. A culture that makes it so a victim is afraid to get help because of fear or shame, that's just plain f'd up.
Click to expand...
Having gone through something at least...remotely...comparable and having known others who have as well: At least part of the shame tends to be self-imposed. People tend to do very passive, self-defeating, or even self-destructive actions in the face of high stress and strong emotions. Like...failing to report sexual abuse for years. Or failing to seek help / pursue legal action because it's just too stressful. Or failing to even resist. Which is not to say, of course, that society doesn't exacerbate things as well.
 
Last edited:
Yalius said:
Here's the problem. Even in modern times, in a generally progressive atmosphere, there's still a culture of shame imposed on victims of sexual assault. What the hell for? Sexual assault victims don't ask for it, they're not leading their rapists on, but there's still this culture that makes victims afraid to confront the perpetrators for fear of being, what, blamed for her own rape? I don't care if you think sexual assault is overreported, underreported, true or false. A culture that makes it so a victim is afraid to get help because of fear or shame, that's just plain f'd up.

Had she received some kind of support in the immediate aftermath, even just assurances that it's not her fault, she's not to blame, there's no shame in being a victim, she might have felt confident enough to seek out the right treatment or therapy from the start. Not let shame of what happened weigh down on her for so long it came to this.

This entire discussion is predicated on a false dilemma-- euthanasia's not the issue here, it's that being the victim of sexual assault carries such an aura of disgrace as to make suicide seem a preferable alternative to speaking up.
Click to expand...

But in order to "receive some kind of support in the immediate aftermath" she would have had to report it to somebody in the first place.

I agree with the spirit of what you say. It's terrible that the victim feels shame.

Maybe what's needed is some kind of support before it happens.
 
Darat said:
.....
Sounds like she was going to kill herself no matter what, beyond putting her under 24 hour supervision I struggle to think what could have saved her.
Click to expand...

We have facilities that are equipped to provide 24-hour supervision. They're called psychiatric hospitals.
 
Bob001 said:
We have facilities that are equipped to provide 24-hour supervision. They're called psychiatric hospitals.
Click to expand...

Yep. Someone sits right outside your door all day, and is immediately available if you need to talk or cry. They're there for you when you fall asleep, and someone is there for you when you wake up. They provide the security of knowing no one is going to invade your room, and yet are far enough away to let you sleep and find some peace.

People do an amazing job recovering there because the stress of their lives is temporarily gone -there's no chores to do, they don't have to work, family is only there during visiting hours, and therapists are there every day.

While I'm the first to admit our mental health system has issues, and that many people don't get the help they need, those who do are usually ready to face life again when they leave the hospital, and ongoing therapy continues to provide the tools and resources they need to put their traumas behind them.


__________________________

Also; I want to put this here because when Google indexes this, someone may find it needing help, so I think it's important:

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
Call 1-800-273-8255
 
Vixen said:
It is wrong, wrong, wrong. The Netherlands own laws state that a person taking that decision have to be free from mental illness.

This young woman was clearly mentally unbalanced. Anorexics do not make well-judged decisions. She had her life ahead of her. Maybe a husband and children.
Click to expand...
How would you have prevented her killing herself?
 
Vixen said:
It is wrong, wrong, wrong. The Netherlands own laws state that a person taking that decision have to be free from mental illness.

This young woman was clearly mentally unbalanced. Anorexics do not make well-judged decisions. She had her life ahead of her. Maybe a husband and children.
Click to expand...

I get the sense that you think that other people should want those things, but not everyone wants children or a spouse. Or in this case, even life itself.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
When I said, "it was the wrong decision" kayle answered, "by whom and how do you know?"
Click to expand...
And you produced some statistics at a population level and we are talking about an individual, she could have been one of those that according to your quoted figures did kill themselves on a second (or more) attempt.

The Netherlands does have a good UHC system that tries to treat many illnesses but of course it can never be 100% effective.
 
casebro said:
I'm unclear- was she conscious and cognizant when she asked for the black pill? Or still/again in a coma?
Click to expand...
Councious, articulate and so on. There is no indication she suffered from a form of dementia or was unable to make her own informed decisions about her treatment.
 
Elagabalus said:
17 yr. olds have been known to make bad decisions from time to time.
Click to expand...
That is true for any age which is why there are safeguards in the system of euthanasia that the Netherlands has adopted. Their system doesn't work on a single decision of "I want to kill myself".
 
Last edited:
Darat said:
And you produced some statistics at a population level and we are talking about an individual, she could have been one of those that according to your quoted figures did kill themselves on a second (or more) attempt.

The Netherlands does have a good UHC system that tries to treat many illnesses but of course it can never be 100% effective.
Click to expand...

I have an opinion like other people in this thread do. When 90% of people who commit a failed suicide recover from their depression to a degree they don't try again, how do you say, well that one could have been one of the 10% so there's no reason to prevent that person's death?

At 17, I'm sorry but I don't believe that person needs support to die, they need support to get past this time in their life.

If that person had a terminal illness there would be different considerations that would go into the decision.


Let's change the circumstances and see what people think. Say a teenager had cancer with a 90% survival rate. If during the worst part of their illness that teen requested euthanasia would you say that was fine, it was their choice?
 
Last edited:
Darat said:
How would you have prevented her killing herself?
Click to expand...

For starters, by committing her to a psychiatric hospital, where she would receive medication and psychotherapy. You might not be able to entirely prevent suicide by someone who is truly determined to die, but you can sure make it much harder and much less appealing.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom