Electric Vehicles

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My hope is that even without regulation some savvy manufacturers might realize that "you can repair it anywhere" is a sales feature, but these days people are pretty willing to accept the complication and privatization of everything.

I wonder about that. Company A says "you can repair it anywhere" while Company B says "you don't have to repair it". Guess who wins the sale, even if Company B's sales claim is a bit dicey but aren't they all already.

Also, I think the backyard tinkerer is increasingly a rare breed. For any modern car, you need all kinds of specialty testing equipment and tools to do anything more than replacing the wiper blades. In addition, such equipment is not like a wrench which is pretty obvious how to use but rather take training to use properly.

I recognize that your situation, bruto, does not meet the usual car buyer profile but it's also true that not many car buyers live in Smalltown, VT so your not the target buyer anyway.
 
FYI: Tesla has changed a few things. Tesla offered free supercharging to the original owner only. Every other feature is now transferable without charge. At least that is my understanding.

Depends on the car. You can still find older used teslas that come with free supercharging, though that is increasingly rare.

And there have been people who have found out That Tesla removed the ability for their car to use the Supercharger network at all because Tesla didn't do the repair.
 
Also, I think the backyard tinkerer is increasingly a rare breed. For any modern car, you need all kinds of specialty testing equipment and tools to do anything more than replacing the wiper blades. In addition, such equipment is not like a wrench which is pretty obvious how to use but rather take training to use properly.


But detailed information is so easy to get these days. Even for unpopular vehicles, you can usually find multiple YouTube videos of people doing the exact fix you need. Also, searching for your vehicle and the problem will turn up common issues (things that should be recalls but aren't). Even if you need to rent or buy tools, you're still generally paying yourself hundreds of dollars per hour tax free when you do your own repairs. And this is true for all kinds of repairs. Apart from a couple of locksmith jobs and a garage door install, I haven't hired anyone to do any auto or home repair in over two decades. Before that I sometimes had to, because the information needed just wasn't available.
 
I wonder about that. Company A says "you can repair it anywhere" while Company B says "you don't have to repair it". Guess who wins the sale, even if Company B's sales claim is a bit dicey but aren't they all already.

Also, I think the backyard tinkerer is increasingly a rare breed. For any modern car, you need all kinds of specialty testing equipment and tools to do anything more than replacing the wiper blades. In addition, such equipment is not like a wrench which is pretty obvious how to use but rather take training to use properly.

I recognize that your situation, bruto, does not meet the usual car buyer profile but it's also true that not many car buyers live in Smalltown, VT so your not the target buyer anyway.

I probably should have said "service anywhere" rather than "repair."

The backyard tinkerer is a dying breed, I know. But the independent garage that can fix things is less so. There are plenty of these which do possess specialized equipment, and which can access a number of parts sources, and they would be handicapped if the manufacturers insisted that such work voids warranties, or cancels contracts for service, or simply bricks the machine. "Right to repair" issues now applicable mostly to farmers will, I think, end up important to motorists.

In the case of other vehicles, I think there has been some legal action to insure, for example, that routine service by third parties will not cancel a warranty or prevent a car from being used. I think there will have to be some further judgment on where that line is drawn in the age of constant connectivity, if the dealer is able essentially to spy on the owner and modify a car's operation on the fly.

Again of course I speak as a minority, but out here in the sparse parts of the country, many auto brands are not locally represented. We depend a lot on third parties, even if we don't do the work ourselves. Some brands are well represented, but others have no dealers within 50 miles or more. Some things like immobilizing locks are more or less under dealer control, but still, if you lose your keys, the relatively local locksmith, with expensive proprietary equipment and the like, can probably get you going without having your car towed away.

Of course I am a little biased, because not only am I an incorrigible bricoleur, but one of my sons is a mechanic at a third party establishment. Their business would be gone if they had to call customers and say "sorry, we fixed your car, but now it will won't start."

I suspect also that as such things become more widespread, there will be a fledgling industry of hackers sidestepping these issues, as is developing on the John Deere front, where you can, I gather, now buy East European programs that bypass the need for dealer input to unbrick a tractor.

In addition though the problem might be fairly rare, I also suspect that internet glitches and outages and dead zones will come to haunt some car manufacturers who depend on connectivity. If it happens often enough that features you've paid for are disabled when you drive past the ledges, or when some data gets corrupted or whatever, people are going to be unhappy.

Right now such events are likely very rare, and will probably always be statistically rare, but as more people use more electric cars for more things, they will become more anecdotally visible. Right now, few people buy electric cars for long trips, for example, but down the road, if you buy one and expect to take a three-charge trip, and find that what was expected to be a half hour charge takes three hours, or that some emergency repair leaves your car stranded, the resulting squawk will be a public relations problem even if the event is quite rare.
 
Also, I think the backyard tinkerer is increasingly a rare breed. For any modern car, you need all kinds of specialty testing equipment and tools to do anything more than replacing the wiper blades. In addition, such equipment is not like a wrench which is pretty obvious how to use but rather take training to use properly.

One weird thing is that electrification has actually brought some life back to the backyard tinkerer community. Trying to keep an old bug or 68 mustang on the road has never been difficult from a wrenching point fo view, but if your flavor of choice is something less popular then the cost of parts and skills needed tend to rise. Rare parts and type specific tools become a real issue.

Electrification can level that a bit. Replacing an electric motor is far more plug and play than even a tried and true LS swap. There just aren't as many examples out there, yet.
 
One weird thing is that electrification has actually brought some life back to the backyard tinkerer community. Trying to keep an old bug or 68 mustang on the road has never been difficult from a wrenching point fo view, but if your flavor of choice is something less popular then the cost of parts and skills needed tend to rise. Rare parts and type specific tools become a real issue.

Electrification can level that a bit. Replacing an electric motor is far more plug and play than even a tried and true LS swap. There just aren't as many examples out there, yet.

It is happening. Some people are buying salvaged Teslas for the battery tech, and trying to retrofit them into other cars.
 
It is happening. Some people are buying salvaged Teslas for the battery tech, and trying to retrofit them into other cars.

Yep, we are heading into a new age of hot rodding where LSs and 2JZs are being replaced by massive or multiple DC motors. I'm really looking forward to watching this unfold.
 
Indeed, the hot rod electric has a lot of appeal. I for example live in an area where air conditioning is rarely needed, have little use for many of the electrical luxuries some like. I'd happily give up power door locks and windows, map software, and stuff, and even some electrical efficiency, for a lighter and simpler vehicle. I could easily see the idea of getting a wrecked electric and transplanting its guts into some elderly vehicle.

Back in the day there were a fair number of people doing similar, low tech things with old VW's, with golf cart engines or hand-wound adventures.

Not likely at this point to be on my short list of projects, any more than the long-deferred and now unlikely project of making a car to run on wood gas. But it's fun to speculate. A little econobox with no extras and a Tesla motor would go like the hammers of hell.
 
Depends on the car. You can still find older used teslas that come with free supercharging, though that is increasingly rare.

And there have been people who have found out That Tesla removed the ability for their car to use the Supercharger network at all because Tesla didn't do the repair.

My understanding is regarding when a vehicle is sold to a second owner and not about unauthorized repairs.
 
The difference is with a traditional car "Oh you'll void your warranty if you do your own repair" becomes a hollow threat after your warranty expires, which usually only a few years. That's generally when the hobbyist and enthusiast really take over and start major reworking of cars for projects.

But with "Cars as a service" model that changes and NEVER GOES AWAY.
 
The difference is with a traditional car "Oh you'll void your warranty if you do your own repair" becomes a hollow threat after your warranty expires, which usually only a few years. That's generally when the hobbyist and enthusiast really take over and start major reworking of cars for projects.

But with "Cars as a service" model that changes and NEVER GOES AWAY.

Yeah, that's a big reason why I don't think cars-as-a-service will ever be a majority of the market. Sort of like leasing. It works for some, but not most people.

but what happens to those cars after they are retired from the cars-as-a-service fleet? Spec racing, that's what happens!

(Sorry, I'm always optimistic about car folks finding joy in any transportation scenario.)
 
Yeah, that's a big reason why I don't think cars-as-a-service will ever be a majority of the market. Sort of like leasing. It works for some, but not most people.

but what happens to those cars after they are retired from the cars-as-a-service fleet? Spec racing, that's what happens!

(Sorry, I'm always optimistic about car folks finding joy in any transportation scenario.)

I have serious concerns with this business model. And to me, a vehicle, any vehicle is about transportation and utility above all. I despised Microsoft when they stopped selling software and started selling subscriptions. Don't own me. Don't make me a permanent revenue stream. If I buy photoshop, I should be able to use it until I stop. Not some arbitrary date that the companies decide.

The same is true with a vehicle.
 
My understanding is regarding when a vehicle is sold to a second owner and not about unauthorized repairs.
I have also heard accounts of Tesla being very harsh with people who restore salvaged vehicles, not only disarming various features but not allowing them to be repurchased at any price.

One of the problems I recall with the used policy is that I think it changed on the fly, so people who bought cars when supercharging was passed on to used buyers found that at some point it no longer was. I don't know whether that affected anyone after buying a used one, but a part of a new car's perceived value is what value it holds used.
 
I have serious concerns with this business model. And to me, a vehicle, any vehicle is about transportation and utility above all. I despised Microsoft when they stopped selling software and started selling subscriptions. Don't own me. Don't make me a permanent revenue stream. If I buy photoshop, I should be able to use it until I stop. Not some arbitrary date that the companies decide.

The same is true with a vehicle.

I don't mind the model for some things, like MS Office. I don't want to have to upgrade every few years and the subscription is relatively cheap compared to the old over the counter cost. I have that software for work and I can expense the cost so having it spread out is probably easier.

If my car needs were more normal I would consider something like volvo's subscription service that allows you to trade in the car on a regular basis. Seems like it could really work for some use cases. But certainly not for everyone.
 
I have also heard accounts of Tesla being very harsh with people who restore salvaged vehicles, not only disarming various features but not allowing them to be repurchased at any price.

One of the problems I recall with the used policy is that I think it changed on the fly, so people who bought cars when supercharging was passed on to used buyers found that at some point it no longer was. I don't know whether that affected anyone after buying a used one, but a part of a new car's perceived value is what value it holds used.

I think there has been a lot of uncertainty and Tesla is going to have to nail that stuff down. I'm not paying attention, so maybe they already have. But the market hates uncertainty.
 
I have serious concerns with this business model. And to me, a vehicle, any vehicle is about transportation and utility above all. I despised Microsoft when they stopped selling software and started selling subscriptions. Don't own me. Don't make me a permanent revenue stream. If I buy photoshop, I should be able to use it until I stop. Not some arbitrary date that the companies decide.

The same is true with a vehicle.
Amen.
I will probably be screaming that at the kids I chase off of my lawn this summer too. :)
 
I wonder about that. Company A says "you can repair it anywhere" while Company B says "you don't have to repair it". Guess who wins the sale, even if Company B's sales claim is a bit dicey but aren't they all already.

Also, I think the backyard tinkerer is increasingly a rare breed. For any modern car, you need all kinds of specialty testing equipment and tools to do anything more than replacing the wiper blades. In addition, such equipment is not like a wrench which is pretty obvious how to use but rather take training to use properly.

I recognize that your situation, bruto, does not meet the usual car buyer profile but it's also true that not many car buyers live in Smalltown, VT so your not the target buyer anyway.

I'm sorry. I disagree. In some ways it is easier to maintain your own vehicle than ever before. You can purchase an OBD scanner for under $100. You can buy a very advanced one for under $200. The codes are all public now. You can easily Google or search on YouTube whatever problem you might be experiencing and there is a good probability that someone else has encountered and made a video on solving it. When I had my first car, I guessed a lot. Not any more.
 
Amen.
I will probably be screaming that at the kids I chase off of my lawn this summer too. :)

Lol.

The kids can play on my lawn as long as they like.

My rants are reserved mostly for companies pulling every trick they can to pick my pocket. It rarely does any good. But still I rant.
 
I have also heard accounts of Tesla being very harsh with people who restore salvaged vehicles, not only disarming various features but not allowing them to be repurchased at any price.

One of the problems I recall with the used policy is that I think it changed on the fly, so people who bought cars when supercharging was passed on to used buyers found that at some point it no longer was. I don't know whether that affected anyone after buying a used one, but a part of a new car's perceived value is what value it holds used.

It is my understanding that over the last 6 months Tesla has reformed some of their petty policies. But I could be wrong.
 
I'm sorry. I disagree. In some ways it is easier to maintain your own vehicle than ever before. You can purchase an OBD scanner for under $100. You can buy a very advanced one for under $200. The codes are all public now. You can easily Google or search on YouTube whatever problem you might be experiencing and there is a good probability that someone else has encountered and made a video on solving it. When I had my first car, I guessed a lot. Not any more.

Tools and garage space are the big barrier imo.
 
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