Cont: Electric Vehicles II

[Dabop]

I like the Teslas myself for their performance, but since musk outed himself- I refuse to have anything to do with them...

The US has made its own bed- BYD was looking at selling there (and possibly even opening a factory), but trumps first term when he went all 'anti Chinese' means that most companies are actively ignoring the US market (although I believe BYD is available in Mexico lol, I know they are selling in South America in various countries)

The use of musks proprietary Tesla connector as a 'EV charging standard' rather than the CCS2 that 'TROTW' has adopted as the standard again makes the US market more marginal and other manufacturers less likely to look at releasing models there...

Australia, like most places, everyone (including Teslas) use the CCS2 Combo charge ports, and you can charge any current EV at any charge without needing adapters- its quite common seeing a BYD charging at a Tesla charger lol, and the reverse, a Tesla at a 'non Tesla' charger...

But hey, the yanks do what they want, and I get cheaper EVs as a result, no skin off my nose....

 

[Rolfe]

I have indeed heard that a number of EV manufacturers have decided simply to ignore the USA. It could be a big market, but what with low uptake, the connector issue and Trump's tariffs, they don't need the hassle. In global terms there are plenty of other less problematic markets to concentrate on.

There's at least one member of our MG4 forum community in Ecuador.

 

[The Don]

I have indeed heard that a number of EV manufacturers have decided simply to ignore the USA. It could be a big market, but what with low uptake, the connector issue and Trump's tariffs, they don't need the hassle. In global terms there are plenty of other less problematic markets to concentrate on.

There's at least one member of our MG4 forum community in Ecuador.

The US could end up being the only large scale market for ICE vehicles and it'll end up being serviced by domestic manufacturers for whom there is no export market.

 

[jadebox]

There are a couple of travel trailers that have batteries and motors in them to extend their range when being towed. As batteries become smaller, lighter, and less expensive, we may see that technology in utility and boat trailers.

Personally, I would like it in our enclosed trailer even if I wasn't using an EV to tow it since it also allows the trailer to be easily moved when not hitched to a tow vehicle.

 

[Rolfe]

That sounds like a good idea! I could imagine a caravan perhaps with a battery comparable to a car battery, which will both run the appliances in the caravan and provide extra range to the towing vehicle. There could be a weight issue I suppose.

 

[acbytesla]

That sounds like a good idea! I could imagine a caravan perhaps with a battery comparable to a car battery, which will both run the appliances in the caravan and provide extra range to the towing vehicle. There could be a weight issue I suppose.

You're absolutely right. It could also be done with truck trailers if extended range was required.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

There are a couple of travel trailers that have batteries and motors in them to extend their range when being towed.

The two closest to production seem to be the Pebble Flow…


And the Lightship…


Both fascinating concepts, but it will be interesting to see if either makes it to market at anywhere close to the projected price. Color me dubious.

 

[Dabop]

Range extender trailers aren't exactly a new idea, and 'diy' versions have been around for a while...

Commercial prototypes as well



So the idea is 'possible' although I really suspect its day has already come and gone, with the widespread installations of fast chargers in many places... (I could see a market for 'powered range extender' caravans for camping 'off the beaten track' being a goer- add some solar for recharging while camping on the roof and as an annex like some home made EV campers have done)

 

[acbytesla]

Range extender trailers aren't exactly a new idea, and 'diy' versions have been around for a while...

Commercial prototypes as well

So the idea is 'possible' although I really suspect its day has already come and gone, with the widespread installations of fast chargers in many places... (I could see a market for 'powered range extender' caravans for camping 'off the beaten track' being a goer- add some solar for recharging while camping on the roof and as an annex like some home made EV campers have done)

That's almost certainly true. I was thinking more along the lines of Semi-truck trailers for EV semis. I can see a fleet of such trailers. But all of that is all about the numbers. Not just the range but does it make sense financially?

 

[Dabop]

That's almost certainly true. I was thinking more along the lines of Semi-truck trailers for EV semis. I can see a fleet of such trailers. But all of that is all about the numbers. Not just the range but does it make sense financially?

Probably not for an individual (unless its incorporated into a caravan for example) but a 'rental trailer' like the French company proposed (the little white trailer) on popular long distance routes may well be if they aren't well serviced by chargers (thats why I said its time has probably already come and gone- there really aren't that many places left underserviced in many countries...)

With even the cheapest EV's now capable of 350-400km on a single charge and taking less than half an hour to recharge to 80% again, there really isn't many places left where you really NEED a range extender trailer...

Even here in Australia, people have done the 'big lap' ie driving right around Australia- a distance of 15000km/9300 miles in EVs, and even the Leafs have been driven both east to west across Australia, and north to south... all done on the public charger network... (yes you can drive across the Nullabor Desert in an EV with no charger more than 200km apart...)

(although thats the public EV chargers, in a worst case scenario, every town basically has a caravan park with 15A outlets for the caravan, you could always pull in and pay for a powered site and use a level 1 charger at its high charge rate, which would allow a 3.5kW charge rate slow charge ie a full charge would take 8-12 hours, or get a 'topup' enough to get you to the next fast charger...)

(seems a bit silly to include the 10A to 15A adapter- Australian powerpoints and plugs are interchangeable when used with a higher powered outlet- a 10A plug fits a 10A, 15A or 20A powerpoint, a 15A plug fits a 15A or 20A powerpoint but a larger plug won't fit a smaller rated powerpoint...)

 

[acbytesla]

Probably not for an individual (unless its incorporated into a caravan for example) but a 'rental trailer' like the French company proposed (the little white trailer) on popular long distance routes may well be if they aren't well serviced by chargers (thats why I said its time has probably already come and gone- there really aren't that many places left underserviced in many countries...)

With even the cheapest EV's now capable of 350-400km on a single charge and taking less than half an hour to recharge to 80% again, there really isn't many places left where you really NEED a range extender trailer...

Even here in Australia, people have done the 'big lap' ie driving right around Australia- a distance of 15000km/9300 miles in EVs, and even the Leafs have been driven both east to west across Australia, and north to south... all done on the public charger network... (yes you can drive across the Nullabor Desert in an EV with no charger more than 200km apart...)
View attachment 59071
(although thats the public EV chargers, in a worst case scenario, every town basically has a caravan park with 15A outlets for the caravan, you could always pull in and pay for a powered site and use a level 1 charger at its high charge rate, which would allow a 3.5kW charge rate slow charge ie a full charge would take 8-12 hours, or get a 'topup' enough to get you to the next fast charger...)
View attachment 59072
(seems a bit silly to include the 10A to 15A adapter- Australian powerpoints and plugs are interchangeable when used with a higher powered outlet- a 10A plug fits a 10A, 15A or 20A powerpoint, a 15A plug fits a 15A or 20A powerpoint but a larger plug won't fit a smaller rated powerpoint...)

Out of curiosity, lots of campsites in the US have 30 amp 220 volt outlets for RVs. Can you plug the average EV in with the kind of cables used by RVs?

 

[The Don]

Out of curiosity, lots of campsites in the US have 30 amp 220 volt outlets for RVs. Can you plug the average EV in with the kind of cables used by RVs?

You'd probably need a dedicated cable or adapter, but yes

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Out of curiosity, lots of campsites in the US have 30 amp 220 volt outlets for RVs. Can you plug the average EV in with the kind of cables used by RVs?

Practically all campsites in the US have pedestals with 30A 120v and 50A 240V and 20A 120V.

Left to right: 50A 240V, 30A 120V, and 20A 120V

With the right adapters, the middle one will provide about 22 miles of range per hour, and the left one will provide just over 30 miles of range per hour and the right one about 7 miles of range per hour. I carry the 50A 240V and the 20A 120V adapters for my Tesla Mobile Charger for just such eventualities.

If anyone finds themselves in N GA or E TN, I have pedestals like that at each location (that's one of them in the photo) and you're welcome to stop by and chat and charge!

 

[Rolfe]

When I got my car, getting on for two years ago, I didn't think too much about charging speed because nearly all the chargers around seemed to be 50 kw units anyway. So I got the car with the 88 kw peak charging speed, not the one with the 145 kw top charging speed. Now I see stories like this all over the place.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1891140914002956796

Well, I get enough time to drink my coffee without scalding my oesophagus I suppose.

 

[acbytesla]

Practically all campsites in the US have pedestals with 30A 120v and 50A 240V and 20A 120V.

Left to right: 50A 240V, 30A 120V, and 20A 120V

With the right adapters, the middle one will provide about 22 miles of range per hour, and the left one will provide just over 30 miles of range per hour and the right one about 7 miles of range per hour. I carry the 50A 240V and the 20A 120V adapters for my Tesla Mobile Charger for just such eventualities.

If anyone finds themselves in N GA or E TN, I have pedestals like that at each location (that's one of them in the photo) and you're welcome to stop by and chat and charge!

Thanks. Me dummy. All I had to do was Google. Doesn't look as if you can use a standard 30 or 50 amp cable. But there are mobile type charging stations for about $200 to $500.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

Here’s a list of adapters Tesla sells for their mobile connector:

Other companies sell adapters for more obscure receptacles, including the L14-30 I use in my hangar:

22 miles of range per hour means a day’s local driving is recharged in no more than a few hours every night.

 

[Rolfe]

I was at a camp site last year where the owner was complaining about EV owners trying to charge their cars from his electrical hook-ups. I wasn't even sure how they would do that because these hook-ups are neither 13A sockets nor type 2 connectors. And it was particularly mad at that place because there was a public ChargePlace Scotland DC charger only a couple of hundred yards from the camp site entrance.

I suppose if the site offered a 13A socket or the car owner had some sort of unusual adaptor they might get some juice. Me, I just ran the car's heating (all night) and my cooking requirements from the car battery, then recharged at the CPS charger before setting off the next morning

 

[Dabop]

Out of curiosity, lots of campsites in the US have 30 amp 220 volt outlets for RVs. Can you plug the average EV in with the kind of cables used by RVs?

In Australia, there are three common 'mains plugs' in use for single phase circuits- the 10A plug/powerpoint (2400W) the 15A ones (3600W) and the 20A ones (4800w)- the 'normal' household plug (ie every room in the house has them) is the 10A, while the 15A is common in garages and some older loungerooms/bedrooms for the older 'window rattler' A/C units, the 20A is less common and usually found in commercial units... our caravan parks use 15A outlets for the caravan supply (either 1 or 2 depending on the caravans loads)

10A (notice the same pin size on all three plug pins...)

15A (notice the earth pin is larger than the A and N ones)- a 10A plug will fit in a 15A powerpoint but the reverse isn't the case (the larger earth pin will stop the 15A plug going into the 10A powerpoint...)

20A (all three pins are the size of the 15A earth pin) A 10A or 15A plug will also fit safely in the 20A powerpoint, but again, the reverse isn't true with the 20A plugs larger pins stopping it going into a low capacity socket...

So here you can easily (and safely) plug in a 10A or 15A (2.4kw or 3.6kw) 'granny charger' into a caravan park outlet, no worries at all
Typical caravan power cord here (15A large earth pin...) and the input socket found on the exterior of the caravan

It is also not uncommon to see a three phase outlet in some homes (usually either for a hot tub, or in the shed out the back for welders, aircompressors and the like) and most industrial sheds/commercial premises- these are two sizes (20A or 32A) again 'interchangeable'- the 20A plug fits the 20A or 32A socket, but not vice versa (any place with 3 phase fitted can readily have a 22kw fast charger fitted, most houses can easily have three phase connected if they don't already have it done- it takes about an hour to do the street line swap from 2 cable to 4 cable feed...
20A outlet

 

[Dabop]

I was at a camp site last year where the owner was complaining about EV owners trying to charge their cars from his electrical hook-ups. I wasn't even sure how they would do that because these hook-ups are neither 13A sockets nor type 2 connectors. And it was particularly mad at that place because there was a public ChargePlace Scotland DC charger only a couple of hundred yards from the camp site entrance.

I suppose if the site offered a 13A socket or the car owner had some sort of unusual adaptor they might get some juice. Me, I just ran the car's heating (all night) and my cooking requirements from the car battery, then recharged at the CPS charger before setting off the next morning

Most caravan parks here are quite happy for you to pay a fee and plug your EV in (some even offer it for free, but most charge a 'nominal fee' usually $10, $20 in some places)- as caravans here use a standard 3 pin plug (similar to the 10A one found in every room in an Aussie house- see previous post) you can use your 'granny charger' quite easily...- no adapters needed for either the 2.4kw (10A) or 3.6kw (15A) versions... just plug them straight in...

 

[Dabop]

Here’s a list of adapters Tesla sells for their mobile connector:

Other companies sell adapters for more obscure receptacles, including the L14-30 I use in my hangar:

22 miles of range per hour means a day’s local driving is recharged in no more than a few hours every night.

Bloody hell.... I prefer our system- one plug to rule them all lol (well 1 'semi interchangable' plug for single phase, and the same in the 3 phase plugs...)
And no need for adapters- the same plug you use in your house for the granny charger is used in caravan parks as well...
(standard 15A outlet, accepts the 2.4kw (10A) plug or the 3.6kw (15A) plug)