DuckDuckGo

[Tony Stark]

I don't get why some people are so paranoid about Google having info about them. What do they think is going to happen as a consequence? Well besides Google making their services better and showing targeted ads?

 

[Blue Mountain]

I don't get why some people are so paranoid about Google having info about them. What do they think is going to happen as a consequence? Well besides Google making their services better and showing targeted ads?

It's not so much Google per se, but the fact there's a large unregulated entity vaccuuming up huge amounts of personal info on a level that would make the Stasi green with envy. What's to stop any American administration from giving Google a National Security Letter ordering them to hand over information about people they (the sender or Google) believes is subversive, or gay, or left/right, does drugs, has cancer, disagrees with administration on X, has a search history or contact or email that indicates pedophilia, etc?

 

[Tony Stark]

It's not so much Google per se, but the fact there's a large unregulated entity vaccuuming up huge amounts of personal info on a level that would make the Stasi green with envy. What's to stop any American administration from giving Google a National Security Letter ordering them to hand over information about people they (the sender or Google) believes is subversive, or gay, or left/right, does drugs, has cancer, disagrees with administration on X, has a search history or contact or email that indicates pedophilia, etc?

The fact that such a reason isn't sufficient to get a court order.

 

[Blue Mountain]

The fact that such a reason isn't sufficient to get a court order.

Can you expand a bit on this please? Your sentence seems to be missing a few words.

 

[Tony Stark]

Can you expand a bit on this please? Your sentence seems to be missing a few words.

The government has to have a good reason to force Google to hand over user data. Being subversive or gay or critical of the administration are not good reasons.

 

[arthwollipot]

The government has to have a good reason to force Google to hand over user data. Being subversive or gay or critical of the administration are not good reasons.

Unless the government says they are.

 

[Tony Stark]

Unless the government says they are.

Unless the government convinces the courts to completely gut the 4th amendment. In which case, I would probably be more worried about the government searching my house for no reason than them searching my Google account.

 

[arthwollipot]

Unless the government convinces the courts to completely gut the 4th amendment. In which case, I would probably be more worried about the government searching my house for no reason than them searching my Google account.

Yep. That's great for those countries that have a 4th Amendment.

 

[Tony Stark]

Yep. That's great for those countries that have a 4th Amendment.

Other countries have to go through the US legal process to force Google to hand over user data.

 

[arthwollipot]

Other countries have to go through the US legal process to force Google to hand over user data.

Ah yes, because the internet belongs to America.

 

[Tony Stark]

Ah yes, because the internet belongs to America.

Because Google is an American corporation.

 

[Blue Mountain]

Unless the government convinces the courts to completely gut the 4th amendment. In which case, I would probably be more worried about the government searching my house for no reason than them searching my Google account.

Who got the password to Tony Stark's account, and what have you done with the real one?

Are you familiar with National Security Letters? They've been used in the past to force companies to turn over records to the US Government, and the letters specifically state that the companies are not allowed to inform the people whose records have been given out about the release. When the government goes around the courts to force companies to release information, the courts can't do very much about it.

Fortunately, after a bit of an outcry there have been steps put in place to allow companies to appeal National Security Letters. But those protections could disappear again.

You're also making the assumption that the government will uphold the constitution. The current pack of politicians running the country don't seem to be overly concerned about it. One or two major events (terrorist attack, North Korea going "ballistic") and the public suddenly supports doing whatever it takes to get at the "bad guys." Surely you remember the abuses of power that happened after the 9/11 attacks.

 

[Tony Stark]

Who got the password to Tony Stark's account, and what have you done with the real one?

Are you familiar with National Security Letters? They've been used in the past to force companies to turn over records to the US Government, and the letters specifically state that the companies are not allowed to inform the people whose records have been given out about the release. When the government goes around the courts to force companies to release information, the courts can't do very much about it.

Fortunately, after a bit of an outcry there have been steps put in place to allow companies to appeal National Security Letters. But those protections could disappear again.

You're also making the assumption that the government will uphold the constitution. The current pack of politicians running the country don't seem to be overly concerned about it. One or two major events (terrorist attack, North Korea going "ballistic") and the public suddenly supports doing whatever it takes to get at the "bad guys." Surely you remember the abuses of power that happened after the 9/11 attacks.

The information that the government can obtain with a National Security Letter (subpoena) is very limited. Like registration info and IP addresses. They need a search warrant to compel Google to give them things like search history or Gmail content.

 

[Blue Mountain]

I'm finally getting back to this thread ... I've been having some fun in the "Is the Earth rotating or stationary" thread this week.

The information that the government can obtain with a National Security Letter (subpoena) is very limited. Like registration info and IP addresses. They need a search warrant to compel Google to give them things like search history or Gmail content.

Have you ever heard of Lavabit? They were a secure email provider that suddenly shut down, and were not even permitted by the courts to say why they had.

Suspension and gag order

On August 8, 2013, Lavabit suspended its operations, and the email service log-in page was replaced by a message from the owner and operator Ladar Levison. The New Yorker suggested that the suspension might be related to the US National Security Agency’s "domestic-surveillance practices". Wired speculated that Levison was fighting a warrant or national security letter seeking customer information under extraordinary circumstances, as Lavabit had complied with at least one routine search warrant in the past. Levison stated in an interview that he has responded to "at least two dozen subpoenas" over the lifetime of the service. He hinted that the objectionable request was for "information about all the users" of Lavabit.

Levison explained he was under gag order and that he was legally unable to explain to the public why he ended the service. Instead, he asked for donations to "fight for the Constitution" in the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. Levison also stated he has even been barred from sharing some information with his lawyer.
...

The [unsealed] court records show that the FBI sought Lavabit's Transport Layer Security (TLS/SSL) private key. Levison objected, saying that the key would allow the government to access communications by all 400,000 customers of Lavabit ... Lavabit was ordered to provide the SSL key in machine readable format by noon, August 5 or face a fine of $5000 per day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit (bolding mine)

 

[jt512]

Well, Google's constant demands for me to confirm that they can do what the hell they like with my info (There's an 'accept' button, no option not to) has finally caused me to switch to a different search engine.

DuckDuckGo seems reasonable. Is it?

What's the search engine of choice for the computer literate?

I've been using DDG for years. However, for some reason, it does occasionally fail to return useful (or any) results for a search that Google will do successfully.

 

[AgeGap]

I've been using DDG for years. However, for some reason, it does occasionally fail to return useful (or any) results for a search that Google will do successfully.

and googles' results are available by adding !g in a duckduckgo search.

linkhttps://duckduckgo.com/bang

 

[bigred]

I've been using DDG for years. However, for some reason, it does occasionally fail to return useful (or any) results for a search that Google will do successfully.

Yeah it's fine for most purposes, but it isn't quite as good as Google, unfortunately.

The bang thing sounds good

 

[arthwollipot]

I have never had DuckDuckGo fail to return a useful result.

Just sayin'.

 

[MikeG]

Neither have I. And you can be confident that people haven't paid to skew the results.

 

[bigred]

I have had a few instances of not being satisfied w/the results back from DDG and got better from google, though it wasn't night and day and nothing I couldn't get over if need be.