Do Crows Anticipate Death?

[FreeChile]

Free Chile,

Just wanted to point out that most birds have a very poor sense of smell, so while they may very well be attracted to a fishing boat for the other reasons you mentioned (sounds and sight of the baits(although I think they probably recognize the boats themeselves as you will see gulls flying towards boats from a distance that they couldn't see the baits, not to mention the fact that often times the fishermen aren't putting the baits out yet and the gulls are still hanging around)) the smell is probably not one of them.

http://www.earthsky.com/shows/shows.php?t=20041002

It may not even be food related but simply that they may be attracted to the movement of the boat or they may confuse it with a big fish--pretty much like dogs barking at and running after cars. In Spanish we say that dogs run after cars because they have a "cat" in the trunk. The word cat in Spanish is the same as the word for jack.

I'm just thinking of other possibilities besides the next meal idea. The simple reality is that we don't know why animals behave in a particular way in many cases.

 

[aargh57]

Chile,

I work on a ship and seagulls flock to fishing boats. They don't flock to pleasure craft or other boats of the same size and they do it before the boat is even out of the channel to start fishing. Dogs are domestic animals and although I don't know exactly why they chase cars I bet there is an explanation for it. Most wild animals are either lookin for food, sleepin, or makin babies. You really think that it's baffling why a bunch of seagulls flock around fishing boats? It's foooood!! What fish looks like a 75 foot fishing boat with wheelhouse 25 feet in the air? Why don't they flock around yachts?

 

[AmateurScientist]

A couple of crow stories:

This one, I'm sure most of you have seen: You are driving along a country road, and way ahead, a crow sits in your path, pecking at some roadkill. As you come closer, it looks up at you seveal times, but continue feeding till the appropriate moment, whereafter it walks to the side of the road, reaching safety just in time. after you pass you can see it in your mirror, walking back to continue its meal. The level of deliberation in this requires considerable intelligence.

Hans,

I recently watched a television documentary about animal intelligence, and it included a short about a crow in NYC who likes walnuts. He gathers them and flies atop a crosspole holding a traffic light. He waits for approaching traffic, drops his walnut in front of an approaching car, and the car runs over the walnut, smashing it open.

The crow then flies down to the sidewalk, patiently waits for the pedestrian crosswalk light to turn green, then calmly walks to his walnut in the middle of the street, eats at it until the light turns red again, and calmly walks back to the sidewalk.

Intelligent indeed.

AS

 

[jambo372]

Crows certainly anticipate death.

I can testify.

My aunt's husband died in the Piper Alpha disaster years ago.
That very night a crow crashed into my aunt's window.

 

[Jyera]

Crows certainly anticipate death.

I can testify.

My aunt's husband died in the Piper Alpha disaster years ago.
That very night a crow crashed into my aunt's window.

I have no reason to doubt your integrity.

I certainly can understand you can testify that there is a co-incidence.

What else beyond that can you testify?

In what way do you think such an insight will be useful to me in future?

 

[WildCat]

I'm not trying to boast about my magpie - I find things like that interesting so I assume other people might too. I would like to hear other people's clever bird stories. I've got stories about other birds that we raised but the magpie was the cleverest.

Several years ago my g/f and I were in Yellowstone and stopped to eat in one of the many picnic areas there. Suddenly, a very large crow (raven?) flew in and started walking towards us. It clearly was used to people giving it food at that spot, it showed no fear and its very large beak looked quite ferocious! It failed to scare us away from our food though, so it then opted for plan B. It hopped up on my car and proceeded to eat the dead bugs off the windshield and grill. It stopped for a few moments to admire itself in the side mirror.

Earlier in the day I had plucked a dead bat out of my grill I must have hit the night before, I wished I had left it there for the crow, it would have been quite a score!

 

[Jyera]

Crows certainly anticipate death.

I can testify.

My aunt's husband died in the Piper Alpha disaster years ago.
That very night a crow crashed into my aunt's window.

Yoda and Obiwan in Starwars are able to feel(anticipate?) the death of others.

I'm a fan of Starwars and Jedi Powers.

So I'm very sincerely interested in acquiring any Jedi like powers.

So despite some of my questions, which might seem very critical and demanding, I really and truely wish that there are ways to build Starwars like ability.

I recall your other account about knowing the death of premature baby.

I do not know how it might be possible. But may I even suggest that perhaps it is not that the crow anticipate death, but YOU.

Once again I sincerely want to know more.

 

[jambo372]

Yoda and Obiwan in Starwars are able to feel(anticipate?) the death of others.

I'm a fan of Starwars and Jedi Powers.

So I'm very sincerely interested in acquiring any Jedi like powers.

So despite some of my questions, which might seem very critical and demanding, I really and truely wish that there are ways to build Starwars like ability.

I recall your other account about knowing the death of premature baby.

I do not know how it might be possible. But may I even suggest that perhaps it is not that the crow anticipate death, but YOU.

Once again I sincerely want to know more.

I tell a lie, it wasn't a crow that crashed into her window - it was a magpie. I couldn't have anticipated the death - it was before I came into being.

 

[Nucular]

Having pondered upon this previously, I had the thought that the crows probably weren't anticipating death on the battlefield at all: they were observing death, or at least observing individuals becoming disabled enough that they probably wouldn't put up a very good fight if one tried to eat his eyes. Once someone's dead or incapacitated, it's a waiting game until it's safe enough to have lunch - hence the circling or watching until the battle's died down a bit.

If only we still had hand-to-hand combat of this type, it would be fairly doable to test some hypotheses about whether they smell or see this incapacitation, whether it's death or posture they sense, whether they only start circling after someone's dead, etc.; but we don't have this type of thing really any more (thankyouverymuch modern warfare ). And although we could probably still test some of the battle ideas experimentally, no-one will because no-one can be bothered. Probably indirect evidence is already abundant, though.

But of course, the first question as regards any of these alleged phenomena is "do they?"

 

[Nucular]

When I was in London, I took a tour of the Tower of London and there were a couple of ravens or "carrion crows" that had taken up permanent residence there. The story is that they hung around because they remember the executions. I suspect that they are now pets that are fed regularly because it makes a good story.

In Mediæval to Early Modern times, victims of execution were left to rot, or their heads put on spikes outside the Tower. Obviously they don't hang around because they remember the executions - they weren't alive then, crows can't pass on that kind of information, and they'd be dumber than we know they are if they stuck around for 500 years 'just in case'.

It could simply be that a population moved down in that period for the easy pickings, and we see their descendents, just as my Scottish ancestors moved down to England for the work, and stayed here.

But there's a legend about the ravens at the Tower: that when the last raven leaves, the Tower will crumble and the monarchy will fall.

So here's my speculation:
1) This legend grew at the time heads were on spikes, because ravens made common appearances to gross people out by pecking out eyes and brains. Maybe the legend said kind of "the monarchy would fall if the executions stopped" (executions of this type being largely of alleged traitors).

2) The Royal Guard took it a bit seriously, or at least didn't want to tempt fate, and so when the executions dried up, continued to feed the ravens, to keep them there, and to keep the monarchy going.

3) It's become a semi-secret tradition that the Beefeaters/groundsmen/secret agents/whoever has to keep feeding the ravens, so the people never think the monarchy's in danger.

4) So the ravens stay because they're being fed, because of the legend.

 

[Nucular]

I tell a lie, it wasn't a crow that crashed into her window - it was a magpie. I couldn't have anticipated the death - it was before I came into being.

Jambo, sorry about your uncle, Piper Alpha was terrible, but how is this story any different from my hamster dying, and then in my grief I remember I stubbed my toe the previous day? Crow or magpie, equally unconnected.

 

[hodgy]

In Mediæval to Early Modern times, victims of execution were left to rot, or their heads put on spikes outside the Tower. Obviously they don't hang around because they remember the executions - they weren't alive then, crows can't pass on that kind of information, and they'd be dumber than we know they are if they stuck around for 500 years 'just in case'.

It could simply be that a population moved down in that period for the easy pickings, and we see their descendents, just as my Scottish ancestors moved down to England for the work, and stayed here.

But there's a legend about the ravens at the Tower: that when the last raven leaves, the Tower will crumble and the monarchy will fall.

So here's my speculation:
1) This legend grew at the time heads were on spikes, because ravens made common appearances to gross people out by pecking out eyes and brains. Maybe the legend said kind of "the monarchy would fall if the executions stopped" (executions of this type being largely of alleged traitors).

2) The Royal Guard took it a bit seriously, or at least didn't want to tempt fate, and so when the executions dried up, continued to feed the ravens, to keep them there, and to keep the monarchy going.

3) It's become a semi-secret tradition that the Beefeaters/groundsmen/secret agents/whoever has to keep feeding the ravens, so the people never think the monarchy's in danger.

4) So the ravens stay because they're being fed, because of the legend.

Ravens were far more common in England several hundred years ago than they are today so it would not be unexpected to see them at the Tower, particularly when carrion (executions) might be available).

There is a legend that the Kingdom will fall if the ravens leave the Tower and on that basis the Yeomen of the Guard (Beefeaters) have for many years raised and fed the Tower ravens. They have cages to keep them in at night and their feathers are clipped to stop them flying off.

 

[Nucular]

the Yeomen of the Guard (Beefeaters) have for many years raised and fed the Tower ravens. They have cages to keep them in at night and their feathers are clipped to stop them flying off.

Wow, I didn't realise they took it quite that seriously - I only speculated they might feed them. But raising them, clipping their wings and keeping them in cages at night is more extreme than I imagined.

It's kind of cheating, isn't it - whichever god is in charge of making sure legends come true must be going "there must be a rule against this..."