Do Crows Anticipate Death?

[EHocking]

Actually, that's not true. Researchers have shown that lions use different techniques for different prey, and they certainly select weak or wounded prey when the prey species is difficult or dangerous to take down. They may also take down a slower member if their intended prey outruns the other - after all, why pass up a good opportunity? - but the fact that they select a victim is very clear to researchers. Males, especially, tend to carefully select a victim when they hunt - which is usually in unnatural situations like preserves in the Americas and such.

When in east Africa for 4 weeks we spent 2 on the Mara and had regular contact with 2 prides of lions (featured on the UK BBC "Big Cat Diary").

Of cheetah, leopard and lion - it was only the lions that actually looked at individuals in a car. This is the point where you realise that you are not in a zoo, but sitting 4ft away from 200kg or so of predator, protected only by an open Land Rover window.

As for crows? Most unlikely that they use smell to locate prey. Practically all birds have no or an extremely limited sense of smell. Exceptions are some tube-nose seabirds and the Turkey Vulture. Source

 

[FreeChile]

Completely uninformed opinion: One clue they might use is body stance and movement. "Hey, have you ever noticed that humans crawl on all fours and shortly thereafter show up dead?"

How would they distinguish between someone taking a nap and a dead body in this case? If they indeed make that distinction, that is.

 

[FreeChile]

Re: Re: Do Crows Anticipate Death?

Do you mean the crows are circling because the body/animal is dead or is dying? If it's already dead, then I'm sure that can be attributed to the smell of decaying flesh, like others said.

My question was more about their ability to anticipate death like vultures.

If the target is dying, then I guess like Temp3st said, could be their ability to spot weaker targets.

That doesn't fly with me. Crows don't seem to be predatory, they feed on the carcass which means they wait for the other animals to die. So weakness or strength of the feed seems irrelevant as the crow has nothing to do with the other animal's death.

 

[Bronze Dog]

How would they distinguish between someone taking a nap and a dead body in this case? If they indeed make that distinction, that is.

My (again) uninformed guess: If they poke him and he says "ow" and reacts violently, they conclude he's not about to die.

 

[FreeChile]

Another interesting question: Do crows, ravens or voltures feed on other crows, ravens or voltures? If not, why not? I guess the smell and sight would tell them that it is one of their own kind. But why would they care; the animal is dead and they feed on the dead. I read on Wickipedia that crows seem to have some kind of funeral for their dead crows. If true, this would tell us that they don't feed on their own kind.

 

[FreeChile]

My (again) uninformed guess: If they poke him and he says "ow" and reacts violently, they conclude he's not about to die.

Your assumption, of course, is that they would poke a sleeping animal. Looking at this again, there may not be any need for them to actually poke them, they could simply look at a moving belly and realize the animal is breathing. Likewise, they may simply rely on sounds.

 

[hodgy]

A bit OT but I used to have a rescued Magpie as a pet (Crow family). It was great - really clever. It would spend most of the day in the woods at the back of our house but come back when you called its name. It would play like a dog or cat (favourite game being chasing a milk bottle top tied to a string). We even taught it tricks like we would scatter some matches on the floor and it would collect them all up in a neat pile.

 

[FreeChile]

A bit OT but I used to have a rescued Magpie as a pet (Crow family). It was great - really clever. It would spend most of the day in the woods at the back of our house but come back when you called its name. It would play like a dog or cat (favourite game being chasing a milk bottle top tied to a string). We even taught it tricks like we would scatter some matches on the floor and it would collect them all up in a neat pile.

Just curious. What and how did your Magpie eat?

 

[Bronze Dog]

Your assumption, of course, is that they would poke a sleeping animal. Looking at this again, there may not be any need for them to actually poke them, they could simply look at a moving belly and realize the animal is breathing. Likewise, they may simply rely on sounds.

Oh. Duh. *waps self with rolled-up newspaper of obviousness.*

 

[Thurkon]

It's actually from a much older series of observations. Crows are seen on any battlefield, ranging back through recorded history. They're mentioned in chronicles of war predating Christ, in fact.

Crows are carrion eaters - like vultures, but much more numerous and widespread. It's not surprising that they would be the first ones to detect food.

Smell, probably…but there is speculation that some have a rough a capacity for learning, as does any mildly intelligent creature.

In Mary Stewart’s The Crystal Cave, Merlin sees crows circling above a battlefield before the battle begins, and theorizes that the crows learned to follow huge groups of people at the time, i.e. armies, as they had learned that such large groups of people often engage in activities that leave massive numbers of bodies in their wake.

I wonder if this is true…

 

[Jeff Corey]

Crows have more than a rough capacity for learning. In the lab, they readily learn to peck a key to get food. Then if a framework blocks their access to the key, they will use sticks to poke through the framework to press the key for food.
This "tool using" trait is not explicitly trained, they come up with it on their own.
Edited to add, cool video clip from Science http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/crow

 

[FreeChile]

Smell, probably…but there is speculation that some have a rough a capacity for learning, as does any mildly intelligent creature.

In Mary Stewart’s The Crystal Cave, Merlin sees crows circling above a battlefield before the battle begins, and theorizes that the crows learned to follow huge groups of people at the time, i.e. armies, as they had learned that such large groups of people often engage in activities that leave massive numbers of bodies in their wake.

I wonder if this is true…

I find Mary Stewart's image unlikely. From the literature I have read today on crows, it appears some crows can't even pass through the skin with their beaks. They must therefore wait for the skin to begin to decompose or for other animals to perforate the skin of the carcass. This would make the time to wait to feast even longer. If Stewart's picture is right, then that would make crows among the most patient animals known. Also, as a result of that and the fact that their olfactory sense may be poor in some cases, their main source of nutrition is not from the carrion as the myths have led us to believe.

 

[FreeChile]

It's actually from a much older series of observations. Crows are seen on any battlefield, ranging back through recorded history. They're mentioned in chronicles of war predating Christ, in fact.

The Wickipedia article even mentions ravens in the context of the mythical flood (Noah's Ark and The Epic of Gilgamesh). It is thought that the raven didn't return because it found dry land. But an argument could be made that it may have just found enough to eat. After all, everything else would have been dead and rotting.

 

[Tricky]

I find Mary Stewart's image unlikely. From the literature I have read today on crows, it appears some crows can't even pass through the skin with their beaks. They must therefore wait for the skin to begin to decompose or for other animals to perforate the skin of the carcass. This would make the time to wait to feast even longer. If Stewart's picture is right, then that would make crows among the most patient animals known.

Um... wouldn't the swords, spears, arrows etc. take care of the skin perforation problem?

 

[EHocking]

Your assumption, of course, is that they would poke a sleeping animal. Looking at this again, there may not be any need for them to actually poke them, they could simply look at a moving belly and realize the animal is breathing. Likewise, they may simply rely on sounds.

Crows will feed on a living animal - eyes first, I'm afraid. And the point made by another poster about a crow's beak not being strong enough to break hide/skin is got around by most avian carrion eaters (storks, vultures, corvids) by using the anus as the "choice" point of entry.

 

[Jyera]

Instead of perpetuating the concept that

"Crows anticipate death"

Regardless of the truth.
I think that it is far better to replace it with

"Crows anticipate a meal."

Then the next time a crow lands on the roof of a person's house, we wouldn't be thinking that someone in the house is going to die.

The senstence "Crows anticipate death." should be reserved for describing the crows when have the ability to predict their own death.

So I'll say:
"Crows don't anticipate death, neither their own nor of others."

 

[MRC_Hans]

Crows will feed on a living animal - eyes first, I'm afraid. And the point made by another poster about a crow's beak not being strong enough to break hide/skin is got around by most avian carrion eaters (storks, vultures, corvids) by using the anus as the "choice" point of entry.

Crows will be predators if the opportunity arises. They are jacks of all trades. Recently, we saw a crow catch and kill a starling right outside the office windows here.

Hans

 

[Tricky]

Crows will be predators if the opportunity arises. They are jacks of all trades. Recently, we saw a crow catch and kill a starling right outside the office windows here.

Hans

Man, if we could train crows to eat nothing but starlings, I'd be in the crow-raising business.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Man, if we could train crows to eat nothing but starlings, I'd be in the crow-raising business.

I doubt that they normally can. This was a youngster (although full-sized, it was still begging food from grown starlings) and it was caught in a corner with high walls. However, this only once more attests to the intelligence of crows, spotting such a situation and pouncing on it.

BTW, I said it caught and killed it. That is not quite precise; actually, it caught it and ate it. Sometime during the process, the starling died .

Hans

 

[Bronze Dog]

I doubt that they normally can. This was a youngster (although full-sized, it was still begging food from grown starlings) and it was caught in a corner with high walls. However, this only once more attests to the intelligence of crows, spotting such a situation and pouncing on it.

BTW, I said it caught and killed it. That is not quite precise; actually, it caught it and ate it. Sometime during the process, the starling died .

Hans

Thank you for that lovely image... We need a sick smiley.