Do Crows Anticipate Death?

[FreeChile]

I’ve been thinking about crows and death lately wondering if Hollywood Western movies have perpetuated a myth. The usual image is of crows or ravens circling or anticipating the death of a person to later feed on the carcass. Do these animals really anticipate death? If so, how do they do it? Along the same line, would a raven attempt to feed on a sleeping animal on the field or do they really wait for the animals to die as portrayed in the movies?

 

[jmercer]

It's actually from a much older series of observations. Crows are seen on any battlefield, ranging back through recorded history. They're mentioned in chronicles of war predating Christ, in fact.

Crows are carrion eaters - like vultures, but much more numerous and widespread. It's not surprising that they would be the first ones to detect food.

 

[Kell]

I thought it was vultures that circled, rather than corvidae. Crows and ravens are carrion feeders, but aren't they just attracted by smell? Although crows are considered to be the most intelligent of birds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae

A quick Google is throwing up a few sites that all say crows are very intelligent, so perhaps the fact that solitary animals on the ground in wilderness areas are imminent carrion is something they could learn to take advantage of.

 

[FreeChile]

Does this mean that vultures anticipate death and not crows? That would make vultures a bit more intelligent in that respect. I think I read on the same Wickipedia that crows have funerals. Is there any truth to that?
Crows

 

[FreeChile]

Here's also a link on vultures on Wickipedia. This link explains that vultures "find carcasses exclusively by sight" and also that "They have a good sense of smell, unusual for raptors." So this is probably how they find food.

My problem with the Hollywood image is that it mystifies these birds by implying that they know when animals are about to die. Take for instance the image of the vulture, which is probably taken to be the most opportunistic of all animals. If it simply relies on sight and smell to find food, then where is the mystery?

 

[Temp3st]

I doubt it's any different from a Lion being able to observe which animal in a herd is weaker than the others.

 

[Jas]

I’ve been thinking about crows and death lately...

In anticipation of Tim Burton's new film?

I think you should cheer up a little

 

[FreeChile]

Re: Re: Do Crows Anticipate Death?

In anticipation of Tim Burton's new film?

I think you should cheer up a little

This is precisely the kind of misconception I am questioning. I am in the best of spirits buddy. In fact, I am having a drink as I write.

 

[Yahweh]

I’ve been thinking about crows and death lately wondering if Hollywood Western movies have perpetuated a myth. The usual image is of crows or ravens circling or anticipating the death of a person to later feed on the carcass.

This probably has more to do with dramatic imagery and commitment to sterotype rather than really being concerned with what crows actually do. Crows are ugly birds, so we associate them with bad things, like death.

The strange idea that crows = death has even made it into our language: a group of geese is a gaggle, a group of seagulls is a flock, a group of crows is a murder .

 

[Bronze Dog]

Re: Re: Do Crows Anticipate Death?

This probably has more to do with dramatic imagery and commitment to sterotype rather than really being concerned with what crows actually do. Crows are ugly birds, so we associate them with bad things, like death.

The strange idea that crows = death has even made it into our language: a group of geese is a gaggle, a group of seagulls is a flock, a group of crows is a murder .

[Homer Simpson] A murder, Marge. A group of crows is called a murder. [/Homer Simpson]

 

[sf108]

I’ve been thinking about crows and death lately wondering if Hollywood Western movies have perpetuated a myth. The usual image is of crows or ravens circling or anticipating the death of a person to later feed on the carcass. Do these animals really anticipate death? If so, how do they do it? Along the same line, would a raven attempt to feed on a sleeping animal on the field or do they really wait for the animals to die as portrayed in the movies?

Do you mean the crows are circling because the body/animal is dead or is dying? If it's already dead, then I'm sure that can be attributed to the smell of decaying flesh, like others said.

If the target is dying, then I guess like Temp3st said, could be their ability to spot weaker targets.

 

[Bronze Dog]

Completely uninformed opinion: One clue they might use is body stance and movement. "Hey, have you ever noticed that humans crawl on all fours and shortly thereafter show up dead?"

 

[Jeff Corey]

In my observation of crow behavior, in the lab or out, they are sure more observant and learn new things faster than, say, mourning doves or pidgeons.
In my area, they seem to have a watchcrow at the top of the tallest pine tree and may have different calls for different situations.
CAW CAW CAW for loose dogs and cats.
So, it probably is the case that whenever something dead is edible, they spot it, call in and eat it.

 

[Gr8wight]

I doubt it's any different from a Lion being able to observe which animal in a herd is weaker than the others.

Lions don't observe which animal in a herd is weaker. They simply catch the first one they overtake, which happens to be the one that runs the slowest.

 

[Z]

Lions don't observe which animal in a herd is weaker. They simply catch the first one they overtake, which happens to be the one that runs the slowest.

Actually, that's not true. Researchers have shown that lions use different techniques for different prey, and they certainly select weak or wounded prey when the prey species is difficult or dangerous to take down. They may also take down a slower member if their intended prey outruns the other - after all, why pass up a good opportunity? - but the fact that they select a victim is very clear to researchers. Males, especially, tend to carefully select a victim when they hunt - which is usually in unnatural situations like preserves in the Americas and such.

 

[sf108]

Lions don't observe which animal in a herd is weaker. They simply catch the first one they overtake, which happens to be the one that runs the slowest.

Adding to what zaayrdragon said, if they caught a zebra/wildebeest that was running the slowest, wouldn't that mean it's the weakest out of the pack?

If you've watched docu's on lions and other big cats, they show them stalking, and waiting in the bushes, singling out either a young calf or wounded or struggling victim. You'll hardly ever see them just attacking a herd, since male wildebeests/bisons/buffalos do pose a threat.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Predators have a surpisingly narrow energy budget, so their survival depends on them having a high success-rate when hunting. They actively seek out weak prey. This has even made some prey animals evolve a communication-mode, where they signal to predators that they are too strong to be caught.

Thompson Gazelles are a prime item on the menu of Cheetas. When a Cheeta is stalking a flock of Thompson Gazelles, and is spotted (as in seen, since Cheetas are always spotted ), some of the Gazelles, instead of just taking flight, can be seen hopping along in a strage, stiff-legged mode. This hopping requires good, strong legs and an energy surplus, showing the Cheeta that those animals will not be an easy catch, and indeed an experienced Cheeta will very rarely try to cath on of them.

Obviously scavenger birds, even without extraordinary intelligence, should be able to learn to spot the behavioural pattern of a sick animal, which may soon be carrion.

BTW, even fish can do this; many of the lures you use to catch, especially salt-water fish, are simulating the look and movements of a sick or injured fish.

Hans

 

[Tricky]

Obviously scavenger birds, even without extraordinary intelligence, should be able to learn to spot the behavioural pattern of a sick animal, which may soon be carrion.

BTW, even fish can do this; many of the lures you use to catch, especially salt-water fish, are simulating the look and movements of a sick or injured fish.

Hans

I think that pretty much nails it, Hans. Plus, crows are extremely intelligent and adaptive birds who are outstanding at pattern recognition (it is said that they can count to four). Far and beyond just recognizing sick animals, they might also recognize that people in armor running towards each other means mealtime soon.

When I was in London, I took a tour of the Tower of London and there were a couple of ravens or "carrion crows" that had taken up permanent residence there. The story is that they hung around because they remember the executions. I suspect that they are now pets that are fed regularly because it makes a good story.

Also note that there are several kinds of crows with varying diets, although all are omnivorous.

 

[MRC_Hans]

A couple of crow stories:

This one, I'm sure most of you have seen: You are driving along a country road, and way ahead, a crow sits in your path, pecking at some roadkill. As you come closer, it looks up at you seveal times, but continue feeding till the appropriate moment, whereafter it walks to the side of the road, reaching safety just in time. after you pass you can see it in your mirror, walking back to continue its meal. The level of deliberation in this requires considerable intelligence.

I once had a Samoyed dog. They are pretty smart, too, as dogs go, BTW. He and crows would usually observe some kind of truce, pretending not to notice each other, but one day he spotted two crows sitting together some distance away, and probably feeling flippant that day, he charged towards them. They looked up, looked at each other, then one of them alighted, flew towards the dog, curved away and drew him with it, flying a couple of feet over the grass, and repeatedly looking back to ensure it kept a safe but constant distance. The crow flew in a large arch luring my dog back towards me, and as they got near, the dog broke off the chase, out of wind, and came back to me. The crow leisurely completed its low-flying circle, landed beside it's pal, who has simply been sititng and watching, not moving an inch, and ruffled its feathers, it's attitude distinctly saying (I might have imagined this part, of course): "That'll teach him. Your turn next time."

Hans

 

[Kell]

"That'll teach him. Your turn next time."

LOL. Absolutely

There are a lot of crows right around where I live ( I can hear a few caws even as I type this ) and one of the things that always interests me about them is that, unlike the other birds in the area - seagulls, magpies and way too many pigeons - most of the time I encounter crows they're on the ground. And they're usually pecking at something. Crows are nosey gits: they'll peck anything. And if it doesn't peck back, they'll usually try to eat it.
When I get closer they'll watch me warily, but I have to get very close and move aggressively to provoke them to take flight, otherwise they just hop away. The other birds usually take flight as soon as I approach and they're not on the ground to begin with nearly so often.
Crows are shifty buggers, but I like 'em.