Dance, Kucinich, Dance!

[pomeroo]

Harsh Reality

[=PerryLogan;2318009]Not at all. Most conspiracy people are confused white guys with right-wing leanings. Alex Jones calls himself "a real conservative." The boys over at StormFront are crazy about the inside job theory.

Real lefties are simply too smart to believe the Truther nonsense.

I must repeat that someone with your analytical gifts should be one the leading lights of the 9/11 Fantasy movement. Conspiracy liars are undoubtedly assorted nuts, but the common thread is a comic book conception of George Bush. True, a few conservatives despise Bush for his rejection of the hallowed tenet of limited government and other far-rightwingers simply can't abide those neocon Jooos, but Perry-- Perry Baby (a little-known hit by the Four Seasons)--conspiracy liars, I hate to break the news, are mostly lefties. Hey, it's tough. I know how you feel, but your favored tactic of standing reality on its head just won't cut it here. Try talking to a few of the loons raving about PNAC. Spend some time on 911blogger.com (incidentally, you'd feel at home).

If 9/11 had happened under a Democratic President, the Truthers would be big stars. Their theory would be headline news every day. They'd be on Fox News every five minutes. The Right would give them unlimited, permanent, and eternal exposure on the media. Anything to smear a Democrat.

That would be the case because the media--you know, the one with 90% Democrats doing the reporting--is in Bush's pocket and always tries to make him look good. Pay no attention to those silly surveys showing that the mainstream media is overwhelmingly left/liberal. When Brokaw said (of Gore's electoral vote total) that WE need x-number more votes to win, the choice of pronoun meant nothing, right? Rather's appearances at Democratic fundraisers were--what? I know: he thought he had gone to a restauarant where people made speeches. Peter Jennings said he inherited his anti-American sentiments from his mother to show that he's a neocon.

One of my favorite stats is the one showing that economic news coverage in 1996 was 77% favorable to Clinton, while in 2004, an economy that was objectively at least as good produced coverage that was 85% UNfavorable to Bush.

Real lefties are not very smart at all.

 

[pomeroo]

Self-Restraint

[=PerryLogan;2318295]

He's now Chairman of the Subcommittee of the House Committee on Oversight & Government Reform, by the way. The Truthers are no doubt hoping he's a dummy like them.

Nah, too easy.

 

[pomeroo]

[=ConspiRaider;2319045]Well, Perry...

The root of the issue is that Kucinich may be out of his gourd. Let's vegetate on this a minute. Certainly, Kucinich has a good bean. He knows his onions. But if his views stem from veganism, they could mushroom into absurdities begging to be squashed. And that ain't gonna butter no parsnips when he's a' peeling for the green stuff during his campaign. Now I'm a meat-and-potatoes guy myself, but if Kucinich peppers his campaign with cornball rhetoric, I won't hold out a carrot for him any longer. Then he'd be in a pickle. And other Dems would refrain from even extending an olive branch out to him. Whaddya gonna do? Beets me.

[/QUOTE]

"I say it's spinach, and to hell with it." --Classic Cartoon from the New Yorker

 

[Axiom_Blade]

I must repeat that someone with your analytical gifts should be one the leading lights of the 9/11 Fantasy movement. Conspiracy liars are undoubtedly assorted nuts, but the common thread is a comic book conception of George Bush. True, a few conservatives despise Bush for his rejection of the hallowed tenet of limited government and other far-rightwingers simply can't abide those neocon Jooos, but Perry-- Perry Baby (a little-known hit by the Four Seasons)--conspiracy liars, I hate to break the news, are mostly lefties. Hey, it's tough. I know how you feel, but your favored tactic of standing reality on its head just won't cut it here. Try talking to a few of the loons raving about PNAC. Spend some time on 911blogger.com (incidentally, you'd feel at home).

Pffft! "Left" and "right", huh? You ask 10 people what "left" and "right" are, and you'll get 10 different answers.

In any case, I haven't seen any surveys of conspiracy theory that are broken down by political group. Know of any?

I suppose Pomeroo has somehow forgotten about the people during the 90s that were talking about all the Clinton conspiracies: Waco, the murders, how he was going to declare himself emperor-for-life once his presidency was up. You know, if you take a radio, and switch it from FM to AM, you hear some pretty interesting stuff. Not very sane, mind you. And not much of it is liberal!

That would be the case because the media--you know, the one with 90% Democrats doing the reporting--is in Bush's pocket and always tries to make him look good. Pay no attention to those silly surveys showing that the mainstream media is overwhelmingly left/liberal.

Sure: What decade is that definiton of "liberal" from?

Republicans have Christian fundies who hide up in the mountains polishing their guns and believe that the earth was created 6000 years ago. Democrats have the hippy New Agers, who believe in everything from aromatherapy to zombies, and every CT from JFK on.

 

[pomeroo]

[=Axiom_Blade;2320135]Pffft! "Left" and "right", huh? You ask 10 people what "left" and "right" are, and you'll get 10 different answers.

In any case, I haven't seen any surveys of conspiracy theory that are broken down by political group. Know of any?

I suppose Pomeroo has somehow forgotten about the people during the 90s that were talking about all the Clinton conspiracies: Waco, the murders, how he was going to declare himself emperor-for-life once his presidency was up. You know, if you take a radio, and switch it from FM to AM, you hear some pretty interesting stuff. Not very sane, mind you. And not much of it is liberal!

Wackos are wackos. Nobody is disputing that. Still, there is something distinctively leftwing about 9/11 conspiracy theories, and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Sure, there are nuts who hear black helicopters hovering over their heads and other nuts who believe that the Jooos are behind, well, everything. Much of the 9/11 conspiracy madness stems from a deep-rooted conviction that America, the fount of all evil in the world, must never be viewed as the victim of an unprovoked attack. Welcome to left-world.

People like Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and Ramsey Clark despise America. They haven't jumped on the twoofer bandwagon because it's just too overwhelmingly stupid. Many conspiracist myths are straight out of the left's playbook. A monstrous crime, a mass murder, committed for no higher purpose than lining the pockets of Dick Cheney's cronies--is that supposed to be a non-ideological assessment? I'd love to see a poll on the subject, but in the meantime, check out the loons on 911blogger.com. It is doubtful that Jon Gold believes a word of the fantasists' idiocy. He wants to harness their energies to promote his decidedly leftist political agenda.

Sure: What decade is that definiton of "liberal" from?

Republicans have Christian fundies who hide up in the mountains polishing their guns and believe that the earth was created 6000 years ago. Democrats have the hippy New Agers, who believe in everything from aromatherapy to zombies, and every CT from JFK on.

[/quote]

There are rightwing nuts and there are leftwing nuts. 9/11 conspiracy liars are mostly the latter.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Wackos are wackos. Nobody is disputing that. Still, there is something distinctively leftwing about 9/11 conspiracy theories, and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Sure, there are nuts who hear black helicopters hovering over their heads and other nuts who believe that the Jooos are behind, well, everything. Much of the 9/11 conspiracy madness stems from a deep-rooted conviction that America, the fount of all evil in the world, must never be viewed as the victim of an unprovoked attack. Welcome to left-world.

People like Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and Ramsey Clark despise America. They haven't jumped on the twoofer bandwagon because it's just too overwhelmingly stupid. Many conspiracist myths are straight out of the left's playbook. A monstrous crime, a mass murder, committed for no higher purpose than lining the pockets of Dick Cheney's cronies--is that supposed to be a non-ideological assessment? I'd love to see a poll on the subject, but in the meantime, check out the loons on 911blogger.com. It is doubtful that Jon Gold believes a word of the fantasists' idiocy. He wants to harness their energies to promote his decidedly leftist political agenda.

There is nothing "distinctly left-wing" about a 9-11 conspiracy. It fits in just as well with right-wing paranoid NWO/UN/Illuminati fantasies and the "evil gubmint" getting too big and powerful and running False Flag operations against its own citizens.

Doubtless, there are leftists who are trying to harness 9-11 CTs, because they think somehow it'll get Bush impeached or something. It's pathetic, and dishonest, but it's to be expected. Both sides play dirty.

There's more to this for me than just petty political squabbles. I'm not gonna sit here and argue about whose team has more loons on it, because, frankly, I don't know. Is that why YOU debate these guys, though? Just to get back at the evil lefties?

I don't know whether Chomsky, Zinn, or Clark (!) hates America. But it seems like you're implying that they're all dirty liberals, and the only reason they don't support the 911 CT is because it's "just too stupid." Chomsky could've played it cool, and given some non-commital answer like Kucinich's: "I really haven't looked at all the evidence yet, blah blah blah" Instead, he's been rather blunt and scathing about it, and has doubtless had to deal with all kinds of flak from CTers for it...some of them former fans of his! I'm sure he's lost book sales over it. You have to respect a guy who's willing to speak the truth, even if it's gonna hit him in the wallet.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

If there's anything "distinctively left-wing" about the 9/11 conspiracies, it's only because the Republicans are/were in power. If Gore had become president, there'd still be 9/11 conspiracies, but they'd have something "distinctly right-wing" about them.

There doesn't seem to be much point in debating about this.

 

[pagan]

Not at all. Most conspiracy people are confused white guys with right-wing leanings. Alex Jones calls himself "a real conservative." The boys over at StormFront are crazy about the inside job theory.

Real lefties are simply too smart to believe the Truther nonsense.

If 9/11 had happened under a Democratic President, the Truthers would be big stars. Their theory would be headline news every day. They'd be on Fox News every five minutes. The Right would give them unlimited, permanent, and eternal exposure on the media. Anything to smear a Democrat.

Holy ***** Perry!

You are still in your Nirvana high in a bad way. You see, when it comes to 911 there is no fundamental difference between reps and dems.

They are the same party. Different shades. You didn't know this?

Excuse me, but isn't that very naive?

 

[rwguinn]

Holy ***** Perry!

You are still in your Nirvana high in a bad way. You see, when it comes to 911 there is no fundamental difference between reps and dems.

They are the same party. Different shades. You didn't know this?

Excuse me, but isn't that very naive?

Actually, you're all wrong.
Right-wing nut-jobs tend to gather in groups in remote areas, gather all the heavy ordnance they can find, and threaten to take over, and try to hold off the FBI, National Guard, and DEA by brute force, and when unable to convince anyone of their "Truth", fight amongst themselves. .
Left-wing nut jobs tend to gather in groups in coffee houses, gather groupies, and spout pseudo-intellectual garbage ant anyone who doesn't want to listen, stage protests with huge (5-6 people) turnouts, and when unable to convince any one of their "Truth", fight amongst themselves.

 

[pagan]

Actually, you're all wrong.
Right-wing nut-jobs tend to gather in groups in remote areas, gather all the heavy ordnance they can find, and threaten to take over, and try to hold off the FBI, National Guard, and DEA by brute force, and when unable to convince anyone of their "Truth", fight amongst themselves. .
Left-wing nut jobs tend to gather in groups in coffee houses, gather groupies, and spout pseudo-intellectual garbage ant anyone who doesn't want to listen, stage protests with huge (5-6 people) turnouts, and when unable to convince any one of their "Truth", fight amongst themselves.

HUh, Hey I prefer to be in Perry's Nirvana mood. It's moore cool.

So there is a fundamental differnce between dems and reps when it comes to macro politics?

I don't think so.

 

[HyJinX]

HUh, Hey I prefer to be in Perry's Nirvana mood. It's moore cool.

So there is a fundamental differnce between dems and reps when it comes to macro politics?

I don't think so.

That's because you probably haven't taken Poli-Sci 101 yet.

 

[Mashuna]

HUh, Hey I prefer to be in Perry's Nirvana mood. It's moore cool.

So there is a fundamental differnce between dems and reps when it comes to macro politics?

I don't think so.

Hey, this post makes much more sense than all your others, well done!

However, if you remove words one through to twenty-nine, then word thirty-three, you'd be making a much more honest statement.

 

[rwguinn]

HUh, Hey I prefer to be in Perry's Nirvana mood. It's moore cool.

So there is a fundamental differnce between dems and reps when it comes to macro politics?

I don't think so.

Reading comprehension problems? As a twoofer, this is not new. So I will give it to you in a way you can understand
Right-wing fanatic = beat you to death
Left-Wing fanatic = bore you to death

 

[PerryLogan]

Left-Wing fanatic = bore you to death

It's all those big words.

In an otherwise reprehensible thread, we have at least touched on the Truthers' remarkable core belief that the Democrats and Republicans are essentially the same. This requires a staggering ignorance. I'm sure pagan would flunk a simple quiz on Democratic policies and accomplishments.

Truthers are the guys who slept through all their classes in high school. Now they've figured it all out...

 

[ConspiRaider]

In an otherwise reprehensible thread, we have at least touched on the Truthers' remarkable core belief that the Democrats and Republicans are essentially the same. This requires a staggering ignorance. I'm sure pagan would flunk a simple quiz on Democratic policies and accomplishments.

Yep, I'm sure pagan would flunk the quiz.

On the other hand, pagan is Swedish and so you'd expect him to miss all those subtleties of American politics that you and I were raised with.

 

[rwguinn]

It's all those big words.

In an otherwise reprehensible thread, we have at least touched on the Truthers' remarkable core belief that the Democrats and Republicans are essentially the same. This requires a staggering ignorance. I'm sure pagan would flunk a simple quiz on Democratic policies and accomplishments.

Truthers are the guys who slept through all their classes in high school. Now they've figured it all out...

Yeah--the politicians in both partys are totally different.

$100, or $1,000,000--we know what they are, we're just haggling over the price.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

In an otherwise reprehensible thread, we have at least touched on the Truthers' remarkable core belief that the Democrats and Republicans are essentially the same. This requires a staggering ignorance. I'm sure pagan would flunk a simple quiz on Democratic policies and accomplishments.

The rank-and-file of both parties are manipulated into believing that the other side is downright despicable and immoral. If both sides could let down their prejudices and have a dialog, some real, substantive change could happen in this country. There ARE differences, but there's much more commonality than most think.

The politicians are different from the rank-and-file. The scum rises to the top, because they get paid off by rich and powerful interests that are at odds with the majority. (Examples: big corporations, special interests like the NRA and Christian Coalition, etc.) There's simply no money in being an honest politician, and you need LOTS of money to win elections.

So, both parties wind up doing a lot of the same stuff, while the rank-and-file bicker among each other. Huge amounts are spent on campaigns to convince people that their party is good, virtuous, etc. while the other side kills babies. It looks like that money hasn't been wasted, it's very effective on people like Perry and Pomeroo.

 

[pomeroo]

[=Axiom_Blade;2320537]There is nothing "distinctly left-wing" about a 9-11 conspiracy. It fits in just as well with right-wing paranoid NWO/UN/Illuminati fantasies and the "evil gubmint" getting too big and powerful and running False Flag operations against its own citizens.

Doubtless, there are leftists who are trying to harness 9-11 CTs, because they think somehow it'll get Bush impeached or something. It's pathetic, and dishonest, but it's to be expected. Both sides play dirty.

There's more to this for me than just petty political squabbles. I'm not gonna sit here and argue about whose team has more loons on it, because, frankly, I don't know. Is that why YOU debate these guys, though? Just to get back at the evil lefties?

I don't know whether Chomsky, Zinn, or Clark (!) hates America. But it seems like you're implying that they're all dirty liberals, and the only reason they don't support the 911 CT is because it's "just too stupid." Chomsky could've played it cool, and given some non-commital answer like Kucinich's: "I really haven't looked at all the evidence yet, blah blah blah" Instead, he's been rather blunt and scathing about it, and has doubtless had to deal with all kinds of flak from CTers for it...some of them former fans of his! I'm sure he's lost book sales over it. You have to respect a guy who's willing to speak the truth, even if it's gonna hit him in the wallet.

The exclamation mark you placed, oddly, after Ramsey Clark's name strongly suggests that you have no idea of what you're saying. Clark's bizarre track record--he has, to repeat, never met an anti-American tyrant he didn't like--indicates a loathing for his own country that compares to Chomsky's and Zinn's.

Chomsky rejects the tinfoil-hat loons because they are complete horses' asses and so easy to discredit. Chomsky, after all, is the man who first denied the existence of the Cambodian genocide and then, when denial became impossible, blamed it on America. He figures that he really can't use another albatross around his neck.

I caught the sleight-of-hand where you substitute "liberals" for "lefties." It's an old dodge. Chuck Schumer is a liberal; Zinn and Michael Moore are leftists. Liberals don't hate America. Leslie Cagan and Medea Benjamin are not liberals. Sorry.

I have taken on the fight against the conspiracy liars because I believe that their pernicious insanity is designed to weaken this country. Notice how their unfalsifiable beliefs immunize them against learning anything. To anyone naive enough to say, it will take another jihadist attack to open their eyes, I say, nothing could open their eyes. Ten more jihadist attacks couldn't do the trick: all of them would be the work of Bush and Cheney, even after Bush has retired to his ranch and Cheney has dropped dead.

If Hillary is elected President in 2008, a few loons will continue to rave about the Illuminati and the Masons, but the Fantasy movement will expire quietly.

 

[Matthew Best]

Please, pomeroo, you've been asked before. Take this to the Politics folder.

 

[Pardalis]

It does have something to do with conspiracy theories though.