Crop circle debunking help needed

[Safe-Keeper]

Thanks a lot for the Weetabix Energy ad. I'll be sure to show that to people when they doubt that people can make crop circles.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I'm an Alien from planet ^^*^^ My ship can travel at a squillion miles per hour. Today I have arrrived at Earth. I shall therefore be leaving home next week, sometime. This gives me ample time to plan the announcement of my arrival... Got it!, I'l make crop circles!! This will be suitable evidence to those Earthlings of my advanced technology. I think I will hide from them as well... Makes sense to me!

Pardon the double post, it's more than 30 minutes since I made my last post.

This is faulty reasoning. You're making the assumption that extraterrestrials think the same way we do, and have the same tools at their disposal. Look at how different the various cultures on Earth are, heck, look at how different humans are from, say, jellyfish and trees. Just on our own planet we have an amazing biodiversity. Why wouldn't creatures from another planet (or moon, or dwarf planet, or massive habitat starship, or whatever) have completely different methods of communication, or different motives than those we would expect them to have?

"Humans did it" remains the Occam's Razor response, no matter how complicated the motif. I always laugh when someone shows me a "too-complicated-to-be-man-made" crop circle, using their decidedly uncomplicated laptop. LOL

Exactly. I probably couldn't build a mansion if I tried. Guess those are made by aliens, too.

If these were made by aliens, why would there be such a clear evolution in the shape of these things? Are we to believe that creatures smart enough to travel between the stars needed to start with very simple crop circles before moving on to more complex ones. The only reasonable explanation is that as the hoaxers gained experience, they were able to make more complex designs.

Tell a NASA astronaut to make a painting on par with Mona Lisa. He will probably fail. Why is this? Because painting, to my knowledge, isn't part of NASA's astronaut training curriculum. They're two different fields altogether. I don't believe in aliens making crop circles either, but lots of the bad logic employed on both sides irritates me.

 

[steve s]

Tell a NASA astronaut to make a painting on par with Mona Lisa. He will probably fail. Why is this? Because painting, to my knowledge, isn't part of NASA's astronaut training curriculum. They're two different fields altogether. I don't believe in aliens making crop circles either, but lots of the bad logic employed on both sides irritates me.

I fail to see how its bad logic. For aliens to go from a single circle to Julia sets in less than a decade at the exact same time that PCs are allowing people to generate their own fractals is a hell of a coincidence.

 

[Verde]

Now you often see crop 'circles' that are recognizable images.

Arizona is a popular destination for alien UFO visitors.

They often do things like this:

http://www.ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=231906

Sheriff Joe probably wants to talk with them.

V.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I fail to see how its bad logic. For aliens to go from a single circle to Julia sets in less than a decade at the exact same time that PCs are allowing people to generate their own fractals is a hell of a coincidence.

But that wasn't what I responded to, what I responded to was a statement that aliens should be expected to make advanced crop circles right off the bat.

 

[Mike!]

Unfortunately, under that philosophy, aliens are also responsible for poptarts and the popularity of Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga - not to mention Michael Jackson.

Not the Poptarts so much as it does sort of explain a lot about the others, when you really think about it.

 

[Furcifer]

oh thanks for all the information! Yeah my question is that there didn't seem to be many arrests and such. Are the farmers ok with this? Don't people go to the local pub and get drunk and brag?

So this is a specific area in the UK? I always point out that the aliens are pretty lame if they can't really get moving on crop circles in other areas. We get our rare crop circle here in the US, but nothing like the UK.

Arrests are great!

And I never thought of the evolution of the crop circles. I'm making a graphic (alien believers like almost comic book style explainations) of the "Evolution of Crop circles" I hardly think that any beings with the capability of reaching Earth needed to learn how to make "better" crop circles over time.

There's a Crop circle database that might help you out.

The farmers around here aren't worried about the crop. They're usually in wheat or corn and the amount they lose is next to nothing. The last farmer I saw on TV said the combine can pretty much collect it off the ground anyways.

 

[fossilhound]

I'm an Alien from planet ^^*^^ My ship can travel at a squillion miles per hour.

Squillion is a delicacy on my planet. It's served with drawn butter. The butter is drawn with a pen. The pen uses ink from the squillion.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Kitty, I'd love to see your "Evolution of Crop Circles" graphic when it's done.

I love how believers say crop circle designs are too complicated for humans to design, and then they go on to post interpretations and decipher the symbolism. "We can't understand them but here's how to understand them".

 

[learner]

deleted

 

[MRC_Hans]

But that wasn't what I responded to, what I responded to was a statement that aliens should be expected to make advanced crop circles right off the bat.

Well, if they make crop circles at all, we must assume this is somehow their preferred mode of communication, so we must assume they are proficient.

If crop circles were initially made be aliens, then they could not have an a priori notion that this was the way to communicate with humans, so choosing the method anyway could only be because this was a way things were done on their home world. Thus, we would expect that apart from some possible teething troubles working in a different environment, they would launch right out with intricate designs.

Another alien-based explanation I have seen is that they started with simple designs so we could learn to read them, but since we have not so far made any progress in decoding any particular alien messages, they should rather have simplified the design to help us.

Hans

 

[rpri]

See the National Geographic Channel's excellent programme investigating (and debunking) crop circles through thorough investigations and checking of many of the claims about soil change, growth changes, balls of light... it was made by Visat History and is called 'The Truth behind Crop Circles'

 

[chuck4842]

I think its possible, if made by aliens, they tried negotiating with our corrupt leaders first. Then they started a few circles all could see. Then, they sat back and heard reactions of a couple of blokes with planks. So, why not more complex with hidden codes for the intelligent ones to chew on. Has anyone seen the Colin Andrews video(I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned), that shows black helicopters and shortly after a retraction from the MOD of no interests in crop circles?

 

[demonunderyourbed]

there is a uk programme featuring danny dyer,he met up with some people who showed him how they do them.am sure it's on youtube.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I think its possible, if made by aliens, they tried negotiating with our corrupt leaders first. Then they started a few circles all could see. Then, they sat back and heard reactions of a couple of blokes with planks. So, why not more complex with hidden codes for the intelligent ones to chew on.

Mmmm, let's see, sanity check:

- Aliens with sufficiently high technology travel through the vastness of space and finds inhabited Earth. ... Possible. Not likely, but possible.

- Aliens try to communicate with nation leaders. ... Plausible.

- Corrupt leaders reject lifetime opportunity to cement their power by turning down connection with aliens. ... Bizarre!

- Aliens resort to ... trampling crops ... to communicate with the people of Earth. ... .... ...... Words fail me.

- Sorry. Failed.

Has anyone seen the Colin Andrews video(I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned), that shows black helicopters and shortly after a retraction from the MOD of no interests in crop circles?

No. Haven't seen. Don't want to.

Hans

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

- Aliens resort to ... trampling crops ... to communicate with the people of Earth. ... .... ...... Words fail me.


Hans

You underestimate their guile. They are doing this to discredit any reports of "aliens" while at the same time establishing landing/logistics points of operations by hiding them in plain sight - where crop circles have been reported.

 

[MRC_Hans]

You underestimate their guile. They are doing this to discredit any reports of "aliens" while at the same time establishing landing/logistics points of operations by hiding them in plain sight - where crop circles have been reported.

Mmmm, so aliens attempts to communicate, using a way cleverly designed to discredit the idea of aliens? The plot really thickens!!

And the proof that this is the work of aliens then lies in their utterly alien way of applying logic. I see. Clever, that.

Hans

 

[Akhenaten]

I think its possible, if made by aliens, they tried negotiating with our corrupt leaders first. Then they started a few circles all could see. Then, they sat back and heard reactions of a couple of blokes with planks. So, why not more complex with hidden codes for the intelligent ones to chew on.

Aliens that displayed such idiotic thinking could barely be expected to cross the street safely, let alone the Galaxy.

Has anyone seen the Colin Andrews video(I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned), that shows black helicopters and shortly after a retraction from the MOD of no interests in crop circles?

Yes, several people in fact.

 

[leon_heller]

Why did they first appear in our little island off the coast of Europe? I'd have thought that aliens would have chosen those vast wheat fields in the USA or Canada to communicate with us.

 

[HansMustermann]

Aliens that displayed such idiotic thinking could barely be expected to cross the street safely, let alone the Galaxy.

Bingo.

For a start they would have figured that there's more than one government on Earth, so if one set of leaders refuses to talk to them, there are about 200 more. Plus, newspapers, TV stations, etc. There's no way they'd _all_ absolutely refuse the free publicity of having the first televised interview with the Romulan ambassador.

But let's even say they want to be vague and cryptic in their "we're here" signals.

Any race that can build a ship that can cross the Galaxy is going to, at the very least, understand maths. And it makes a very nice starting point too for communication with another species that is also at least at the point of understanding basic arithmetic.

E.g., the sequence of prime numbers. E.g., 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, 37, 41, 43, 47, 53, 59, 61, 67, 71, 73, 79, 83, 89, 97. Or the Fibonacci numbers. If you want to give someone the idea "we're here, guys", you just put a buoy up there with a light that flashes that sequence over and over again. It's not going to pass for very natural.

That they'd just make a circle in a wheat field, is surrealistic.