• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Consciousness question

Imaginative said:
In the mean time I will carry on reading and consuming as much knowledge as I can about how the universe works and what all the sciences can discover. Knowledge is power, it also allows you to be more objective.

If there is anything after I die, I'd rather be a well read/informed dead person than to have lived a life with such a limited worldview.

Regards
Click to expand...
Nice.
 
Splossy said:
So has anyone got any skeptical / scientific idea of what the hell consiciousness is all about?
Click to expand...
Mercutio is the local expert, but he's so verbose that your eyes glaze over trying to read his posts.

The layman's version is that consciousness is a set of characteristics which may include ability to perceive and respond to stimuli, ability to process and communicate information, self-awareness and quite a few others. Although all of these "properties" are only descriptive, it is clear that each one is an emergent property of certain classes of brain function, as demonstrated by the fact that we can alter most or all of them by mechanically or chemically manipulating the central nervous system.
***
ETA: Ah, I see Merc has already hit you with the long version. His is better. Go get some toothpicks for your eyelids.
 
Last edited:
Splossy said:
So has anyone got any skeptical / scientific idea of what the hell consiciousness is all about?
Click to expand...
Something other than having your head stuck up your arse perhaps? Analyze, analyze, analyze I say! Only consciousness can determine what consciousness is, not the other way around. ;)
 
Last edited:
Imaginative said:
In the mean time I will carry on reading and consuming as much knowledge as I can about how the universe works and what all the sciences can discover. Knowledge is power, it also allows you to be more objective.

If there is anything after I die, I'd rather be a well read/informed dead person than to have lived a life with such a limited worldview.
Click to expand...
Little children are very attentive and just know. And are automatically received into heaven.
 
Iacchus said:
Something other than having your head stuck up your arse perhaps? Analyze, analyze, analyze I say! Only consciousness can determine what consciousness is, not the other way around. ;)
Click to expand...
We tried this. It fails. When you look through a flawed lens, how are you supposed to see clearly?

Iacchus, look at the history of the scientific study of consciousness. Look at the remarkable progress that has been made. If there is a view with its collective head up its collective arse, it is the mystics' view. You are still citing Swedenborg as your source, when everything about his view should have been abandoned decades ago (and has been, by anyone who critically examines it).

You are quite simply wrong.
 
Mercutio said:
And our energy (actual metabolic energy, that is, not some hazy metaphorical spiritual energy) is dissipated into worms and bacteria. Of course, the next thing to ask would be whether a person can become self-aware, and what that actually means...and what it does not mean.
Click to expand...
Yes, and how is it possible for you to stand outside of yourself to even suggest such a thing? Because the "scientific facts" are there? Guess again. ;)
 
Mercutio said:
We tried this. It fails. When you look through a flawed lens, how are you supposed to see clearly?

Iacchus, look at the history of the scientific study of consciousness. Look at the remarkable progress that has been made. If there is a view with its collective head up its collective arse, it is the mystics' view. You are still citing Swedenborg as your source, when everything about his view should have been abandoned decades ago (and has been, by anyone who critically examines it).

You are quite simply wrong.
Click to expand...
If one wishes to know, it's simply a matter of becoming aware ... regardless of what Swedenborg or anyone else has to say about it.
 
Iacchus said:
Yes, and how is it possible for you to stand outside of yourself to even suggest such a thing? Because the "scientific facts" are there? Guess again.
Click to expand...
Guess again? You mean, you know something about the way the "scientific facts" stack up? (I presume you mean "evidence"; "facts" are always provisional in science, and subject to confirmation or disconfirmation by better evidence.) What science have you looked at?

Thus far, your posts here have shown you ignorant of physics, biology, psychology, cosmology...If you are going to presume to chastise me in the name of "scientific facts", I humbly request you to post one. Just one. It will be your first.
 
Iacchus said:
If one wishes to know, it's simply a matter of becoming aware ... regardless of what Swedenborg or anyone else has to say about it.
Click to expand...

The question is: are you actually aware of the mystical mumbo-jumbo you're claiming is real, or are you just hallucinating the whole thing?

My money's on the latter, which I'm sure doesn't surprise you a bit.
 
Iacchus said:
If one wishes to know, it's simply a matter of becoming aware ... regardless of what Swedenborg or anyone else has to say about it.
Click to expand...
:notm
Your claim stands in opposition to the evidence. Early psychology tried introspective methods, like you recommend. They abandoned these methods because they are unreliable and flawed. We can find out much more about your conscious experience (yes, even yours) through a well-designed experiment than you can through "becoming aware".

Self-knowledge, it turns out, is notoriously unreliable. But then, you would see many examples of that if you watched the videos.
 
Iacchus said:
Yes, and how is it possible for you to stand outside of yourself to even suggest such a thing? Because the "scientific facts" are there? Guess again. ;)
Click to expand...

Which "scientific facts" and regarding what phenomenon are you referring to as non-existant?
 
Mercutio said:
...we know this because of the following evidence:
Click to expand...
It has been written and maintained in at least two places I'm aware of, but I won't ask you to look into it, because you don't seem to have the aptitude for it. So in that sense I'm merely offering up a clue, for someone who may actually be searching in this regard.
 
Iacchus said:
It has been written and maintained in at least two places I'm aware of, but I won't ask you to look into it, because you don't seem to have the aptitude for it. So in that sense I'm merely offering up a clue, for someone who may actually be searching in this regard.
Click to expand...

Aw, go on. Post a link. Who knows, a miracle might happen and you actually get a convert.

Of course, you posting some actual evidence would constitute a miracle.
 
Iacchus said:
It has been written and maintained in at least two places I'm aware of, but I won't ask you to look into it, because you don't seem to have the aptitude for it. So in that sense I'm merely offering a clue, for someone who may actually be searching in this regard.
Click to expand...

Why on Earth would you not want anyone to look into something which forms the basis for your arguments? I'd be happy to offer any sources for any explanations I make in this forum.
 
SuperCoolGuy said:
Which "scientific facts" and regarding what phenomenon are you referring to as non-existant?
Click to expand...
Open your eyes, and consciousness will speak to you of everything that you see around you. There are no "scientic facts" outside of this.
 
Iacchus said:
It has been written and maintained in at least two places I'm aware of, but I won't ask you to look into it, because you don't seem to have the aptitude for it. So in that sense I'm merely offering up a clue, for someone who may actually be searching in this regard.
Click to expand...
Oh, that is rich!

Whenever someone I am arguing suggests something for me to read, I have done so. I have, as I have said previously, learned from links suggested by Interesting Ian and hammegk. I humbly suggest that you do not link these posts because you are afraid that they do not really support your claim. Your lack of understanding about your own view has haunted you before...

Please, share a citation or two with us. Let's see what you have...
 
Iacchus said:
Open your eyes, and consciousness will speak to you of everything that you see around you. There are no "scientic facts" outside of this.
Click to expand...
You are quite simply wrong.

You keep your head in a bucket, and claim there is no outside world, because you can't see it. As long as you refuse to remove your head from the bucket and look at the evidence others have suggested to you, you cannot logically know that "there are no 'scientific facts' outside of this." You simply have not looked.
:boxedin:
 
Iacchus said:
Open your eyes, and consciousness will speak to you of everything that you see around you. There are no "scientic facts" outside of this.
Click to expand...

So if we can't see something there are no scientific facts about it? Wow, all that atmospheric chemistry information and it's all worthless!

Thanks, Iacchus! It's back to ether and phlostigon we go!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom