Closet Children

Rolfe said:
That's what immediately struck me about this question. When I began the first Harry Potter book it seemed obvious that Rowling was describing an abused child. The fact that he came out of this apparently perfectly normal was perhaps the most fantastical thing about the books.

Rolfe.
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Well, treating kids like this is unspeakable. However to Harry Potter:

Normal, surrounded by murder, death, and treachery? No, I don't think, magic aside, Harry Potter is anything like normal. At the end, after all (spoiler warning)

































He does murder the most evil man on the planet...
 
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I posted this at the behest of a coworker and he's not wondering about feral children or cases of large scale neglect. He's specifically wondering about parents who lock a child (be it their only one, or only one of those they have) into a closet or enclosed space smaller than a bedroom for months or years on end.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
I posted this at the behest of a coworker and he's not wondering about feral children or cases of large scale neglect. He's specifically wondering about parents who lock a child (be it their only one, or only one of those they have) into a closet or enclosed space smaller than a bedroom for months or years on end.
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What the hell does this mean? Children who are locked into a closet or enclosed space for months or years on end are feral children.

That's like saying "I'm not wondering about rain. I'm wondering about water falling from the sky."
 
kittynh said:
We can thank the wire monkey mommy for undoing the damage of BF Skinner and his "don't touch the baby" philosophy...
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Sorry to contradict you, but you have that wrong. Skinner never stated a "don't touch the baby" philosophy. You might have him confused with John Watson, who I recall having said something like that.
 
Jeff Corey said:
Sorry to contradict you, but you have that wrong. Skinner never stated a "don't touch the baby" philosophy. You might have him confused with John Watson, who I recall having said something like that.
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That's my understanding, as well. Skinner's "baby box" was just a climate controlled crib. There was an idea at the time that babies needed to be cold, but he disagreed and created a sleeping space for his baby that he thought would provide the most comfortable temperature and humidity level. Urban legend turned it into a false story that he locked his baby in a box 27/7 and advocated not touching babies, etc.
 
drkitten said:
What the hell does this mean? Children who are locked into a closet or enclosed space for months or years on end are feral children.

That's like saying "I'm not wondering about rain. I'm wondering about water falling from the sky."
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Sorry for the confusion. I was using feral child within the context of Mowgli, Tarzan or children raised by animals.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Love-At-Goon-...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239374596&sr=1-2

this book isn't too pro-Skinner.

I really got some of my feeling about it when I read this book...

http://www.amazon.com/Egg-I-Betty-M...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239374749&sr=1-1

in it the mother is horrified that the farmers in the area where she lives simply pass their babies around, let anyone cuddle and hold them, go to their babies the minute they start to cry (they are accused of "spoiling") and generally letting not only get dirty but be a happy part of the family rather than kept quiet and alone. The author is from the well to do family that goes with what her doctor and baby books tell her. She does point out, rather puzzled, that the babies seem to do fine and even thrive on the treatment. It's an autobiography, so I supposed that it was reflective of the average educated mothers belief.
 
I don't know what you mean by "isn't too pro-Skinner. It doesn't have much to say about him, just pp. 95-96 where she describes Skinner's development of the operant conditioning chamber not very accurately and Harlow's sarcastic comment about it ("There is no other learning technique that ever did so much for the pigeon... It is nice to know that it takes so little brain to learn or think, and as I grow progressively older, I am enormously reinforced by this discovery." p. 96)
The other brief reference is to Skinner's development of the air crib (p. 152). Blum mistakenly says that the soundproofing of the box prevented Deborah from hearing the voices of her parents and sister, followed immediately by a quote from Skinner, " One side of the compartment is safety glass, through which we all talk and gesture to her..."
So I guess it isn't pro- or anti-Skinner.
 
kittynh said:
...http://www.amazon.com/Egg-I-Betty-M...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239374749&sr=1-1

....
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Did you catch the blatant racism in that book? It turns lots of people off, but I do understand it was part of the culture. Plus lots of things in that book are not to be taken at face value (she was very good at embellishing).

You should read her next book, Anybody Can Do Anything, where she leaves her husband with her daughters to live with her mother and sister. Then the family finds all sorts of ways to survive the depression (the mother had to move from the very nice neighborhood to a less expensive one, and even run a restaurant after the father died). There are some interesting changes of attitudes, but she is still a product of her time.
 
kittynh said:
I really got some of my feeling about it when I read this book...

http://www.amazon.com/Egg-I-Betty-M...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239374749&sr=1-1

in it the mother is horrified that the farmers in the area where she lives simply pass their babies around, let anyone cuddle and hold them, go to their babies the minute they start to cry (they are accused of "spoiling") and generally letting not only get dirty but be a happy part of the family rather than kept quiet and alone. The author is from the well to do family that goes with what her doctor and baby books tell her. She does point out, rather puzzled, that the babies seem to do fine and even thrive on the treatment. It's an autobiography, so I supposed that it was reflective of the average educated mothers belief.
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She's talking about the late 20's and early 30's, though, right?
That would have been before Skinner's air crib was even invented.
 
As I said before, there might have been a confusion between Watson and Skinner.
You can google all the dirt about Watson, but it has nothing to do with Fred Skinner, who was named Humanist of the year in in 1972.
 
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