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China

Ziggurat said:
Well, no, there is evidence. Considerable evidence, starting with Taiwan. They took over Taiwan. And in the long run, Taiwan has done far, far better than mainland China.

But even supposing you're right about what would have happened with the Kuomingtang, you're still comparing what the CCP accomplished to what you think would have been a disaster. Not being worse than a disaster isn't an indication of actual success. That's setting the bar far too low.



You're underselling one of history's greatest slaughters.
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Yes, and Taiwan got MASSIVE investments from the US in order to stop the Reds, which came with strings attached, and as mentioned before, Taiwan is way smaller and easier to control.
No Reds, no investments, so if the KMT had won the civil war that money would not have been there for them.

As I said, a far better comparison would be Russia, which went full capitalist in the 90's.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Yes, and Taiwan got MASSIVE investments from the US in order to stop the Reds, which came with strings attached, and as mentioned before, Taiwan is way smaller and easier to control.
No Reds, no investments, so if the KMT had won the civil war that money would not have been there for them.

As I said, a far better comparison would be Russia, which went full capitalist in the 90's.
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You are conflating investment with foreign military aid. They aren’t the same. Military aid to stop the reds was spent on military equipment and personnel. That doesn’t little to nothing to increase economic development. The investment in Taiwan (which does promote economic development) wasn’t to stop the reds, but to make money. And that was possible because Taiwan was worth investing in. China wasn’t worth investing in, because your investment wouldn’t be protected, and wouldn’t make any money.
 
Ziggurat said:
Yes. And that was a predictable response to the choices they made. The CCP were not some innocent victim in all of this.
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No one said they were.

But it explains the lag before Mainland managed to catch up to Taiwan, and it was not because only Western Capitalist countries can prosper.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
No one said they were.

But it explains the lag before Mainland managed to catch up to Taiwan, and it was not because only Western Capitalist countries can prosper.
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They haven't caught up to Taiwan. They may never.

But you're right, not only Western Capitalist countries can prosper. Eastern capitalist countries can prosper too. Commies? Not so much.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
No one said they were.

But it explains the lag before Mainland managed to catch up to Taiwan, and it was not because only Western Capitalist countries can prosper.
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Plese note that China got properous after then went semi Capitialist.
Command Economies Just Don't Work very well..and a lot of people on the left just hate that fact.
And one habit of progressives I don't like is the way they seem to knee jerk defend ANY country whose government they view as being on the left.
 
Lukraak_Sisser said:
Perhaps it's better to compare them to Brazil or India, in which case they did semi ok economically. Corruption in those two countries is pretty comparable
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are you using some corruption index?


and only India does better in human rights (for now).
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whats your source for that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World

in this ranking, both are quite similarly positioned, but Brazil does slightly better (it shows Brazil losing lots of positions since 2014... I found no data they use to justify it however)
https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/human_rights_rule_law_index/


if you go here, Brazil scores better in gender, racial equity and religious freedom...
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/data-explorer#{%22mode%22:%22graph%22,%22year%22:2021,%22axes%22:{%22y%22:{%22name%22:%22Racial%20equity%20Score%22,%22key%22:%22racial_equity%22,%22type%22:%22score%22}},%22selected%22:[%22BRA%22,%22IND%22]}
 
The Atheist said:
Xi and the CCP keep getting more determined to turn the people into mindless robots who want the government to micro-manage their lives.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59827047
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This stood out to me a bit:
In Chinese culture a stigma has been attached to tattoos - in the past they were used to brand criminals and the tattoo still has links to organised crime groups in east Asia. Tattoos among ethnic groups were often seen as a mark of the uncivilised.
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This makes it sound like China is special in this regard. But think about it, you could say the same thing about a stigma about tattoos in the west, and that they have historically been linked to organized crime. My experience here is that tattoos are extremely common, much as they are around the world, and not looked on as strange in any way.

But maybe the plan is to change that.
 
Nice to see that among all the islands cosying up to China's renminbi diplomacy, the outstanding PM of Samoa gave them a complete snub at a China-sponsored Foreign Ministers' meeting. Fiame Naomi Mata’afa is also Foreign Minister of Samoa and instead of attending herself, sent the office girl.

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2...n-pacific-islands-a-growing-wariness-of-china

I said when she was elected that I expect her to be the best PM Samoa has ever had, and this is an excellent start.
 
As Putin cuts his own throat with an idiotic war, Xi might just be doing the same, with his own war. On covid.

He pretty much tied his reputation to zero covid, and it's failing, even as all of Shanghai gets locked down, something they'd been trying very hard not to do.

It's going to be a serious loss of face when he has to admit failure, and I wonder if it's going to encourage the congress to put him out to retire.

Might be someone worse!
 
The Atheist said:
Xi and the CCP keep getting more determined to turn the people into mindless robots who want the government to micro-manage their lives.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59827047
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One thing that annoys me about East Asian countries is their zombie-like trust in heavy-handed authoritarian government. Yes killing drug users, okay, ethnic cleansing against a particular group--Oh they're full of gangsters and criminals anyway. Protest? Oh stop being an annoying parasite and stfu.

At least they follow the rules during epidemics.
 
Reports that China did some cyber attqcks against Ukraine right before the invasion.
If proven too, time to put heavily sanction China as an accomplaice to war crimes.
 
This whole situation must be China's wet dream come true.

Russia is showing that it's army is both badly equipped and trained, and will have lost a significant amount of men and materiel in a pointless war, that will likely mean it will also have to keep an occupying army in Ukraine, creating an Afghanistan type scenario.
So if China were to press some claims in Siberia or wants to vassalise Mongolia, it's clear Russia is not able to retaliate in a conventional way.

The economies of the EU countries are going to be in shambles, possibly this will hit the US a bit too so people will want cheap stuff, which will most likely stop a lot of the actions of trying to pressure China on worker's rights.

Russia's economy is going to be shattered and will be sanctioned, so China can buy things from Russia at a discount due to Russia's weak position.
And then it can either use them for itself, sell at a nice profit to the EU or use as a bargaining chip with African countries, which are also being hit by the rising food prices.
 
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