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Cont: Cancel culture IRL Part 2

d4m10n said:
Hard agree on the highlighted bit.

Speaking of "Cancel Culture" (which totally isn't a thing according to some folks) there is a new book out on the subject, from one of the guys at FIRE.

As president of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, Lukianoff has been either in front of the camera or behind the scenes of almost every major free speech controversy over the past 25 years. A near sui generis figure in American legal history, he’s the rarest of creatures in modern public life: someone dedicated to elevating principle over tribalism, a progressive who’s willing to ally himself with anyone — even the Koch brothers — who supports his larger cause.

That cause is a near absolute commitment to the First Amendment and civil liberties. It’s premised upon a faith in the human capacity to tolerate complexity, hearkening to F. Scott Fitzgerald’s observation that “the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.” That Americans can recognize the importance of the due process rights of a likely criminal or the speech rights of someone with extreme or loathsome views.
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Read more here.
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This passage neatly encapsulates the contradiction inherent in the mindsets of “cancel culture” hand-wringers:
An essential premise of civil libertarianism has always been that one could defend the rights of a speaker without agreeing with their message, even in the most extreme cases. Today, it’s no longer clear whether one can defend a racist’s right to speech without being considered a racist.
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Nothing funnier than self-styled free speech warriors framing what other people might say about them as a threat to free speech.
 
Why hasn't this thread been bumped for what seems like a very clear cut case of 'cancel culture' as those who claim to be concerned about it formulate it?

Education officials stood up for some very extreme versions of free speech, saying essentially that even Nazis should be able to speak without it being a violation of school rules as long as it doesn't move into action. They were then pressured, by government officials no less, into resigning.

I have no illusion that anyone doesn't understand what I'm talking about or that it's a 'gotcha' but I'm of course talking about U-Penn's President and the Congressional hearings.

If we hold that people losing their jobs for defending 'free speech', including that of right wing authoritarians up to and including literal Nazis, is 'cancel culture', what about this is not of concern? If silencing free speech especially in an academic setting is a problem of grave import, where are all the people who claim to be worried about it?

My thesis is the vast majority of people who claim such concerns don't actually have them, whether or not that is clear even to themselves. It's easy to attack the people being critical of others, but when it comes to time actually defend the Nazis' 'free speech principles', opps! All out of *****!

I look forward to all the Enlightened Centrists to claim they really do care.
 
it mostly revolved around comedians boosting ticket sales and celebrities with skeletons in their closets prepping their audiences for when the truth came out. elon musk bought a free speech platform to call for the firing of advertiser that cut ties and kid rock and the ufc is back drinking bud light. actual infringement on free speech was never really a concern at any point if we're being honest

of course i do find it funny that to them antisemitism was awesome and something we need more of until arabs starting doing it.
 
"Stop Demanding Dumb Answers to Hard Questions"

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Commentary about the congressional hearings from FIRE here, here, and elsewhere. Commentary at Popehat from attorney Ken White here. 'nuff said.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
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Commentary about the congressional hearings from FIRE here, here, and elsewhere. Commentary at Popehat from attorney Ken White here. 'nuff said.
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Is it enough said?

Regardless, I was talking about people who either argued for in effect unilateral disarmament from 'woke' people; right wingers and 'centrists' (and the Performatively ReasonableTM). People like Stefanik herself, who has often railed against the same kind of actions she's leading here.
 
Performance cancelled

Pensacola College (a private school in Florida, USA) canceled a performance by the King's Singers, a British vocal ensemble. Whether or not this fits one's definition of cancel culture is an interesting question. CNN reported, “PCC canceled a concert with The King’s Singers upon learning that one of the artists openly maintained a lifestyle that contradicts Scripture,” the statement reads.

A section referring to sexuality in the school’s articles of faith notes: “We believe that God has commanded that sexual activity be exclusively reserved to a man and a woman who are legally married to each other.” It goes on to say that scripture forbids “sexual immorality including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography.”"

If you are unfamiliar with the King's Singers, here is a video of them taking a bulldozer to the foundations of Judeo-Christian civilization.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
Pensacola College (a private school in Florida, USA) canceled a performance by the King's Singers, a British vocal ensemble. Whether or not this fits one's definition of cancel culture is an interesting question. CNN reported, “PCC canceled a concert with The King’s Singers upon learning that one of the artists openly maintained a lifestyle that contradicts Scripture,” the statement reads.

A section referring to sexuality in the school’s articles of faith notes: “We believe that God has commanded that sexual activity be exclusively reserved to a man and a woman who are legally married to each other.” It goes on to say that scripture forbids “sexual immorality including adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography.”"

If you are unfamiliar with the King's Singers, here is a video of them taking a bulldozer to the foundations of Judeo-Christian civilization.
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Well considering that the definition of cancel culture is "anything the right accuse the left of doing but that on thorough investigation only the right are found to do", I would like to ask for the lefty wokeist credentials of the "school" before making a decision.
 
Deck the Halls but not in a hyper-Calvin sort of way

Gulliver Foyle said:
Well considering that the definition of cancel culture is "anything the right accuse the left of doing but that on thorough investigation only the right are found to do", I would like to ask for the lefty wokeist credentials of the "school" before making a decision.
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It is tempting to suggest that I provided the "ancient Yuletide carol" and you provided the rest, but perhaps it would not be accurate. In comment #2021 I suggested Scott Greenfield's definition: Scott Greenfield’s definition was “Cancel culture is the breakdown of social norms that allow for the free speech of criticism but inhibit people from joining together with like-minded people to not merely disagree with words or ideas they find unacceptable (or perceive to be unacceptable on behalf of others), but then act upon them for the purpose of inflicting secondary punishment to their antagonists, whether based on fact, opinion or false accusation, without need for proof or due process and disconnected from the nature of the original ‘offense.’” Neither Mr. Greenfield nor myself qualify as "the right."

I have not been able to find evidence that Pensacola College was affiliated with any particular denomination. I did learn that they reject evolution. Their website also states, "Without meaning to be unfriendly or unkind, we feel it only fair to say that Pensacola Christian is not a part of the “tongues movement” and does not allow students to participate in or promote any charismatic activities, nor do we permit students to promote hyper-Calvinism." I was relieved to learn that last bit of information. I hope that this information is of some use to you.
 
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Chris_Halkides said:
It is tempting to suggest that I provided the "ancient Yuletide carol" and you provided the rest, but perhaps it would not be accurate. In comment #2021 I suggested Scott Greenfield's definition: Scott Greenfield’s definition was “Cancel culture is the breakdown of social norms that allow for the free speech of criticism but inhibit people from joining together with like-minded people to not merely disagree with words or ideas they find unacceptable (or perceive to be unacceptable on behalf of others), but then act upon them for the purpose of inflicting secondary punishment to their antagonists, whether based on fact, opinion or false accusation, without need for proof or due process and disconnected from the nature of the original ‘offense.’” Neither Mr. Greenfield nor myself qualify as "the right."

I have not been able to find evidence that Pensacola College was affiliated with any particular denomination. I did learn that they reject evolution. Their website also states, "Without meaning to be unfriendly or unkind, we feel it only fair to say that Pensacola Christian is not a part of the “tongues movement” and does not allow students to participate in or promote any charismatic activities, nor do we permit students to promote hyper-Calvinism." I was relieved to learn that last bit of information. I hope that this information is of some use to you.
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Why would it? They're still an organisation whose sole purpose is to indoctrinate children into their far right christian ideology.
 
Food Network is very protective of its reputation. Bobby Flay once told a competitor on "The Next Food Network Star" that if he cursed on live TV it would embarrass the network and his career would be over.
Professional chef Darnell Ferguson is the host of the show "Super Chef Grudge Match", which began its second season on December 26th. He was arrested on domestic violence charges on January 9th and his show was instantly gone from the air and all streaming services.
 
Armitage72 said:
Food Network is very protective of its reputation. Bobby Flay once told a competitor on "The Next Food Network Star" that if he cursed on live TV it would embarrass the network and his career would be over.
Professional chef Darnell Ferguson is the host of the show "Super Chef Grudge Match", which began its second season on December 26th. He was arrested on domestic violence charges on January 9th and his show was instantly gone from the air and all streaming services.
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One wonders if, now that Fox the Failure, has lost his legal actions, will we see the end of the unending Lewis repeats.
 
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-disney-gina-carano-lawsuit-first-amendment-rights/

disney says it had a free speech right to fire carano, cites arguments from her lawyer

"Requiring an artistic organization to hire as its speakers people who are associated with [a controversial political] position will undermine its ability to send the particular aesthetic or artistic message that it wants to send [because] hearing even neutral artistic material from someone who has become well-known for political views may make that material seem ideologically laden, or at least may significantly distract from the artistic message."
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while i agree it’s a foolish lawsuit brought by an even more foolish person and likely doomed to fail, i also think stuff like this degrades the already pretty flimsy basis for cancel culture being a problem. so in that way i think it’s notable.

but, hey, what if she wins? that’s not a statement against cancel culture? telling a company they can’t do that. of course it is.
 
dirtywick said:
...i also think stuff like this degrades the already pretty flimsy basis for cancel culture being a problem.
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It's only a problem (in this particular case) if you would've enjoyed Rangers Of The New Republic, which was definitely cancelled. Personally, I think it would've been awesome to have a masculine heroine busting balls across a galaxy far far away, but hey I still have Netflix.

The idea that cultural problems need to be solved in the courts is misguided at best. There are plenty of things which we ought to be legally allowed to say (e.g. vaccines do more harm than good) which would still be morally wrong to say.
 
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