Can we have an update on the state of the ISF?

[a_unique_person]

I see the possibility of a third thing.



He asked for donations, did not receive enough to do the requested things, made some progress, but has had to put the forum on the back burner, while concentrating on clients that actually bring in money.

If that's the case he could just pass it on to us. I don't know why he won't just let go of it.

 

[zooterkin]

If that's the case he could just pass it on to us. I don't know why he won't just let go of it.

"Just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that post. What do you think needs to be put in place to run and maintain the forum?

 

[kali1137]

I see the possibility of a third thing.

He asked for donations, did not receive enough to do the requested things, made some progress, but has had to put the forum on the back burner, while concentrating on clients that actually bring in money.

Right but if that were the case, there is zero reason to not take two seconds to tell us that is the case instead of just leaving us high and dry. Especially when it has been noted that said owner finds time to be active on other social media. I really love this forum. I have learned a lot and my thinking has been changed for the better. That is why I was willing to donate.
But a pattern has formed here. Small bursts of participation, big promises, some effort, then dead silence and total abandonment with no explanations. It is hard not to feel like a sucker when you have fallen for it more than once.

 

[a_unique_person]

"Just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that post. What do you think needs to be put in place to run and maintain the forum?

Letting go is one part. Taking on the responsibility is something else.

 

[The Atheist]

I see the possibility of a third thing.

He asked for donations, did not receive enough to do the requested things, made some progress, but has had to put the forum on the back burner, while concentrating on clients that actually bring in money.

You should get some lessons in apologetics, because that's pathetic.

I was going to post an actual response, but someone else already did, so I'll repeat it:

Right but if that were the case, there is zero reason to not take two seconds to tell us that is the case instead of just leaving us high and dry. Especially when it has been noted that said owner finds time to be active on other social media. I really love this forum. I have learned a lot and my thinking has been changed for the better. That is why I was willing to donate.
But a pattern has formed here. Small bursts of participation, big promises, some effort, then dead silence and total abandonment with no explanations. It is hard not to feel like a sucker when you have fallen for it more than once.

What do you think needs to be put in place to run and maintain the forum?

I know you didn't ask me, but I'm going to respond on the basis that you have no knowledge of forums and how they do or don't work, because if you were an admin of a forum site it would be a really stupid question.

1. It needs to be visible to non-members. This can be achieved for a very small amount of money, and if we say Icerat collected $2500 (which I think is a very low estimate, since we know some people are still paying) then he could do this for an annual fee less than 10% of that income.

2. Given the decline in discussion forums worldwide, a sensible forum owner would look to grow the place. Along with some sensible promotional ideas, see point 1.

3. Take part in the forum. Randi hardly ever engaged with the forum, to its detriment. Even the Almighty Himself, Richard Dawkins, when he owned a forum, was a very active participant, as were the late Douglas Adams and even Pyrrho at SC. Why would anyone want to own a forum then not participate in it?

4. Building trust with the people who make up the forum - posters.

How's that going?

5. Be honest about your intentions. Icerat has time and time again said "I'm going to do this...." and nothing happens. See point 4.

If you want more, just ask.

 

[Thermal]

Seems the good Mr icerat checked into the forum a couple weeks ago. No posting or anything, but I guess it's good news that we were not altogether forgotten. I feel special.

 

[bluesjnr]

You should get some lessons in apologetics, because that's pathetic.

I was going to post an actual response, but someone else already did, so I'll repeat it:






I know you didn't ask me, but I'm going to respond on the basis that you have no knowledge of forums and how they do or don't work, because if you were an admin of a forum site it would be a really stupid question.

1. It needs to be visible to non-members. This can be achieved for a very small amount of money, and if we say Icerat collected $2500 (which I think is a very low estimate, since we know some people are still paying) then he could do this for an annual fee less than 10% of that income.

2. Given the decline in discussion forums worldwide, a sensible forum owner would look to grow the place. Along with some sensible promotional ideas, see point 1.

3. Take part in the forum. Randi hardly ever engaged with the forum, to its detriment. Even the Almighty Himself, Richard Dawkins, when he owned a forum, was a very active participant, as were the late Douglas Adams and even Pyrrho at SC. Why would anyone want to own a forum then not participate in it?

4. Building trust with the people who make up the forum - posters.

How's that going?

5. Be honest about your intentions. Icerat has time and time again said "I'm going to do this...." and nothing happens. See point 4.

If you want more, just ask.

I have to commend you on your reslience in this regard.

 

[icerat]

Hi folks,

Apologies for the absence. Death, disease, and divorce has had it's way with me.
Further upgrades will be proceeding this weekend. Notice to go up soon, expect chaos.

(PS: I haven't read the thread, just the topic, seemed a good a place as any to post a quick update, I won't be engaging in any discussion either for now)

 

[arthwollipot]

Thanks for checking in. Sorry it's been a hard time for you. I hope your situation is improving.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

 

[Orphia Nay]

From icerat's ISF Staff site notice:

"The forum will be undergoing maintenance this weekend from approximately noon Friday, October 18 through Monday October 21. The site will be offline completely for significant periods over this time."

 

[rjh01]

That means the forum will be down five days or more. I only hope it will be a significant upgrade from 3.7.7 CSS.

 

[arthwollipot]

I count four days.

 

[DallasDad]

THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!

 

[rjh01]

I count four days.

The forum will not be back until Tuesday GMT. So it is Friday.

Things take longer than what people think.

 

[The Atheist]

Hi folks,

Apologies for the absence. Death, disease, and divorce has had it's way with me.

Given that disease and divorce were the reasons you gave for years of inattention several months ago, does that mean you've had more disease and another divorce, or is it still the same cop-out you gave for not doing anything for years prior to the Modest proposal thread?

Just checking.

ETA - the original thread that caused nothing to happen was 2016: https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303199

I'm not even going to bother mentioning that's 4 whole years before covid.

 

[Chanakya]

Hi folks,

Apologies for the absence. Death, disease, and divorce has had it's way with me.
Further upgrades will be proceeding this weekend. Notice to go up soon, expect chaos.

(PS: I haven't read the thread, just the topic, seemed a good a place as any to post a quick update, I won't be engaging in any discussion either for now)

Yep, life can be a bitch sometimes. A crazed, snarling bitch, that you hope isn't rabid and won't do you in for good.

This too shall pass. Or so they say.

Good wishes, cheers.

 

[Chanakya]

Given that disease and divorce were the reasons you gave for years of inattention several months ago, does that mean you've had more disease and another divorce, or is it still the same cop-out you gave for not doing anything for years prior to the Modest proposal thread?

Just checking.

ETA - the original thread that caused nothing to happen was 2016: https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303199

I'm not even going to bother mentioning that's 4 whole years before covid.

Let's not be mean. Not that mean.

 

[Orphia Nay]

icerat hasn't even said the word "divorce" on the forum since 2013.

 

[rjh01]

Given that disease and divorce were the reasons you gave for years of inattention several months ago, does that mean you've had more disease and another divorce, or is it still the same cop-out you gave for not doing anything for years prior to the Modest proposal thread?

Just checking.

ETA - the original thread that caused nothing to happen was 2016: https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303199

I'm not even going to bother mentioning that's 4 whole years before covid.

Done a search for all of icerat's posts. Could not find any excuses as to why this forum has not been upgraded. Did find several interesting posts which I have quoted below.

So what have I missed?

Sadly not. The transfer - which takes 7-8hours each attempt - kept failing. I tracked at least part of the issue to a corrupted index in the original database, and the first attempt to fix it - which shouldn't normally have caused much trouble - broke it completely after logs and reindexing unexpectedly filled the storage.

Hence the short notice.

The corruption is now hopefully fixed. Another backup and restore to attempt another test of getting the DB on the cluster will be attempted soon. 17GB data dumps do not transfer nicely.

1. It wasn't the site upgrade per se, it was a test migration of the DB to a DB cluster to make future migration and upgrades smoother and quicker
2. Considering to implement CloudFlare post-upgrade

Ok, due to the massive problem with bots right now I've blocked non-members from viewing the forum at all by default. Ironically that actually means forums with custom permissions (eg members) show more info to unregistered users than the non-member forums, but for now it at least makes the forum usable for members!

ETA: Oh, and FYI this was all completely unrelated to last weekends maintenance, which unfortunately ended up being a failed attempt to migrate the database in preparation for a software upgrade. A new attempt with a faster approach will be attempted in the near future.

As I noted, enough has been raised to proceed with the upgrade, but not yet enough to cover monthly running costs - though exactly how much that is going to be is not going to be clear until it's fully operational and the hardware demands become apparent. The core software and media management extension has been purchased and testing is in process. I aim to have a sandbox platform available for users within the next 1-2 weeks (Delayed thanks to a flooded kitchen and a car crash. Yay.). I'll be opening it to moderators first.

Well, it's about 7% of the active membership at present, so not that many, (though obviously thank you to each and every one of them)

Working out how much I've spent over the past X years to do your "reckoning" will take quite a while. So short answer, no.

Either I come through and deliver something worthwhile for now and the future, or I don't. Your mileage may vary.

For now I've decided not to sell it, so for a number of reasons I won't publicly be revealing data on it. In any case, no, it's not expensive to keep running as is, but it probably generates a lot more traffic than people think, and it does cost me money. (albeit not a lot - but it has added up over the years.)

Basic upgrade and migration with assistance from Xenforo is going to cost in the order of $US500, so not a bank breaker. But there's the entirely unknown costs of dealing with all the current custom stuff that breaks, and custom integrations I'd like to do in the future. Running costs are going to depend on strategic choices on how to host it, how successful we are at growing it - and how we go about growing it.

First things first.

1. Stabilising current performance - done
2. Migrating to modern software and mobile friendly - in process. Current goal is to do this next week. Stuff will break.
3. Fix broken stuff.
4. Implement new features (eg blogs/articles)
5. Work out a sustainable, scalable method to pay for it all
6. Grow

Been thinking about this recently.

1) Promoting critical thinking

is it I think. Your other points all follow from that.